View Poll Results: is it ever allowable for a Parent to punish their child with force?

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  • Yes

    46 66.67%
  • No

    15 21.74%
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    8 11.59%
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Thread: Parents: Punishing Kids [W:361]

  1. #161
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    Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So you believe you own another human being? How does that work exactly?
    The words we have do not unfortunately convey the complexity that is life. Ownership in this case is not outright but such that you own the exclusive privilege and responsibility that it is to raise your children till such they are able to make their way on their own. This exclusive responsibility is such that its almost the equivalent of ownership in the level of freedom of action one could take with ones property. I would want to use the would trusteeship in place of ownership, but that makes it more distant than what it is. We don't have a word I am aware of the conveys accurately the relationship of responsibility and freedom of action that goes with parenting.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
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  2. #162
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    Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Why protect anyone if that is your mindset? Quite honestly, most things that happen in this world are not my business. Why is it my business if someone is raped or killed? It's not really. Hell, chances are I won't even know about it.
    I give parents the benefit of the doubt. Not for them but for mine and me. I don't want people interfering with how my family parents or I parent.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

  3. #163
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    Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    The words we have do not unfortunately convey the complexity that is life. Ownership in this case is not outright but such that you own the exclusive privilege and responsibility that it is to raise your children till such they are able to make their way on their own. This exclusive responsibility is such that its almost the equivalent of ownership in the level of freedom of action one could take with ones property. I would want to use the would trusteeship in place of ownership, but that makes it more distant than what it is. We don't have a word I am aware of the conveys accurately the relationship of responsibility and freedom of action that goes with parenting.
    Sure we do. The proper term is guardian. Parents are the defenders and protectors of their children. They have the responsibility to keep them safe and well cared for. A parent that hits their children is failing at their duty to keep their children safe and to protect them from harm. They are someone that is unworthy of the title of guardian. They are like the military man that says he is there to protect and serve, but kills innocents in the field. He is a terrible guardian of men, like a man that hits his children is a terrible guardian of children.
    Last edited by Henrin; 09-19-14 at 07:00 PM.

  4. #164
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    Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Be that as it may, you cannot own another person, even your own child. Your kids are your responsibility and you can and should be able to raise them as you wish, but that does not extend so far as physical abuse or neglect.
    The problem lies with the level of responsibility and the freedom required to execute those exclusive responsibilities. You err on one side, I on the other. One mans abuse is another mans discipline. Which man decides. I say the parent. A parent cannot fear to do what they must because they will be judged by society and then they are punished for trying to execute their exclusive responsibility. Especially since there is no consensus on what is or not abuse, let alone broad consensus.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

  5. #165
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    Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    more people should read this.
    Thank you.

  6. #166
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    Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

    IMO, the line between abuse is pretty clear.

    The punishment has to match the crime.

    I catch my daughter climbing on the counter to get to the chocolate in the cabinet? She gets taken down, and talked to in a stern voice, and I laugh about it to the wife later.

    I catch my daughter climbing onto a chair to get to the medicine on the top shelf of the hall closet? She get's pulled down, her hand gets slapped, and she gets a stern talking to. The wife and I contemplate moving the medicine.

    I catch my daughter spitting food, throwing food, yelling at her brother, etc? She gets time out in the time out chair, staring at a wall for two minutes.

    I catch my daughter abusing the dog, as she has done? She gets yelled at, and depending on the level of abuse, three swats on the but.

    I catch my daughter swinging a metal pole at her brother's face? She gets yanked into the house, three solid spanks on the but, and gets sent to her room for a while.

    She's 5, so lying isn't yet a problem, but as my parents did before me, when that days comes, she'll get the belt.

    Punching your child is abuse. Kicking your child is abuse. Locking your child up in a room for hours on end without food or drink is abuse. Things that cause true physical harm is abuse. Bruises, cuts, broken bones, these are the signs of abused children.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  7. #167
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    Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    No, it's your own warped (hateful) perspective of the justice system as a means of extracting revenge. Don't blame your own fraudulent interpretation of the justice system on others.
    Our justice system is almost exclusively built around the concept of "extracting revenge," and anyone with eyes can see it. This frankly isn't even up for debate.

    What on Earth else could you possibly call locking non-violent offenders away from decades at a time in the name of "zero-tolerance" and similar non-sense? How else could you describe the death penalty?

    Hell! We make many offenders basically wear their crimes around their necks for the rest of their lives like an Albatross, in the form of various "registries" for convicted felons.

    For all intents and purposes, our current system is all about using government force to intimidate the population into compliance with established social norms.

    I'm sorry, but in the manner that the United States approaches this objective, the simple fact of the matter is that our methods are supremely expensive, and inefficient. Nations like Singapore have achieved far better results for the price of nothing more than a few legal fees and a shaft of bamboo.

    If you could understand what the justice system really is (a justification of society itself), you'd have a higher level of understanding.
    If you could see the world for what it really is on a de facto basis, rather than imposing abstract ideological constructs upon it, and trying to warp reality to fit your vision, you'd understand that your "level of understanding" is worthless.

    Not at all. Where did you get such an idea?
    Am I to assume that you support our current, primarily retributive, system of justice then?

    Perhaps second world, but definitely a ****hole.
    Singapore's Per Capita GPD is higher than that of the United States, and, in many regards, their infrastructure is more advanced.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Childish BS.
    Historical fact.

    Was Rome more prosperous as a republic, or as an autocratic empire?
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 09-19-14 at 07:13 PM.

  8. #168
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    Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    IMO, the line between abuse is pretty clear.

    The punishment has to match the crime.

    I catch my daughter climbing on the counter to get to the chocolate in the cabinet? She gets taken down, and talked to in a stern voice, and I laugh about it to the wife later.

    I catch my daughter climbing onto a chair to get to the medicine on the top shelf of the hall closet? She get's pulled down, her hand gets slapped, and she gets a stern talking to. The wife and I contemplate moving the medicine.

    I catch my daughter spitting food, throwing food, yelling at her brother, etc? She gets time out in the time out chair, staring at a wall for two minutes.

    I catch my daughter abusing the dog, as she has done? She gets yelled at, and depending on the level of abuse, three swats on the but.

    I catch my daughter swinging a metal pole at her brother's face? She gets yanked into the house, three solid spanks on the but, and gets sent to her room for a while.

    She's 5, so lying isn't yet a problem, but as my parents did before me, when that days comes, she'll get the belt.

    Punching your child is abuse. Kicking your child is abuse. Locking your child up in a room for hours on end without food or drink is abuse. Things that cause true physical harm is abuse. Bruises, cuts, broken bones, these are the signs of abused children.
    Well put.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


  9. #169
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    Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Our justice system is almost exclusively built around the concept of "extracting revenge," and anyone with eyes can see it.
    That's your misconception and it's not your only one. Good luck figuring out what the justice system is really about.

  10. #170
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    Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    That's your misconception and it's not your only one. Good luck figuring out what the justice system is really about.
    Again, here you go favoring your ideological dogma over reality as it can actually be observed to exist.

    Stick to the "Ivory Tower," Eco. Your ideas don't amount to a hill of beans anywhere else.

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