View Poll Results: Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government

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  • Yes

    18 51.43%
  • No

    16 45.71%
  • Other

    1 2.86%
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Thread: Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government?

  1. #31
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    Re: Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    I sincerely doubt Putin would engage in a nuclear exchange over Ukraine. He may be a bully, but he isn't psychotic.
    So...are you willing to bet modern civilization and billions of lives on "I sincerely doubt"?
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    I sincerely doubt Putin would engage in a nuclear exchange over Ukraine. He may be a bully, but he isn't psychotic.
    Look at this from a mirrored scenario.

    America fell, but still has it's war machine and nuclear arsenal fully in tact.
    Washington is trying to get Texas back, but Russia steps in and starts arming Right Wing extremists who want to maintain their Independence.

    Would an escalation be possible if Russia stood in the way of Washington reacquiring Texas?
    How would America feel about Russia arming the Texans?

    You might find this reverse comparison to be silly, hell, even I find it to be a bit silly.
    But it is the exact same thing that is taking place now, only with the shoe on the other foot.

    The answer is that Washington would most definitely view an escalation of war as warranted in the event of Russia arming Texas while Washington was making a move to reacquire Texas.
    And Washington would most definitely view a nuclear scenario as "on the table", in the event of such interference.

    Back to reality-

    You look at this situation with too much bias and you see the "line that shalt be crossed" as being in front of Russia.
    But that "line" is not in front of Russia, it is in front of Ukraine.
    If we interfere, it is we who have crossed the line. It is then Russia's job to retaliate. And they will, just as we would.

  3. #33
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    Re: Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government?

    Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government?
    humanitarian aid. no proxy war with Russia. as Islamic state is that region's problem and responsibility to handle, this one is Europe's.

  4. #34
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    Re: Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Recently the President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko appealed to a joint session of Congress asking for more support from the United States. My question is, "Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government? "

    Info here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujSP...RX8-EiaN3XFrSQ


    The US should start bombing this instant. What's good for Iraq is certainly good enough for Ukrainians.

    Just no boots on the ground, Putin might wake up and he would be even testy than he is now......then what would you do?
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
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  5. #35
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    Re: Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Painter View Post
    Look at this from a mirrored scenario.

    America fell, but still has it's war machine and nuclear arsenal fully in tact.
    Washington is trying to get Texas back, but Russia steps in and starts arming Right Wing extremists who want to maintain their Independence.

    Would an escalation be possible if Russia stood in the way of Washington reacquiring Texas?
    How would America feel about Russia arming the Texans?

    You might find this reverse comparison to be silly, hell, even I find it to be a bit silly.
    But it is the exact same thing that is taking place now, only with the shoe on the other foot.

    The answer is that Washington would most definitely view an escalation of war as warranted in the event of Russia arming Texas while Washington was making a move to reacquire Texas.
    And Washington would most definitely view a nuclear scenario as "on the table", in the event of such interference.

    Back to reality-

    You look at this situation with too much bias and you see the "line that shalt be crossed" as being in front of Russia.
    But that "line" is not in front of Russia, it is in front of Ukraine.
    If we interfere, it is we who have crossed the line. It is then Russia's job to retaliate. And they will, just as we would.


    More than a bit silly in fact...when the US started tinkering in Ukraine, Ukraine was an independent nation...not a state within Russia.

    The more valid comparison is if Russia decided to help overthrow a duly elected government in Canada the members of which appealed for asylum in the US.

    Then, we can be certain the US would unleash the hounds of war without so much as a pause and start bombing with cries of "we have to fight them there or we will have to fight them here" and "54 - 40 or fight. The USA would be on condition very ****ing red and defcom five, nuked and ready.

    Putin haters please note, the Russian president went about his business at the winter Olympics, issuing protests at the international level and the UN. He did not act until after several warnings went unheard and the Winter Olympics, so important to Russians, were over.
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
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  6. #36
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    Re: Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Recently the President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko appealed to a joint session of Congress asking for more support from the United States. My question is, "Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government? "

    Info here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujSP...RX8-EiaN3XFrSQ

    I voted no.Its none of our business so we should stay out of it.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  7. #37
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    Re: Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government?

    Russia has targetted Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan for anchluss. The last time people in Europe applied the "where there are Germans, there is Germany" idea, things blew up in a big way.

    We should support Ukraine with defensive weaponry.

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    Re: Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    More than a bit silly in fact...when the US started tinkering in Ukraine, Ukraine was an independent nation...not a state within Russia.

    The more valid comparison is if Russia decided to help overthrow a duly elected government in Canada the members of which appealed for asylum in the US.

    Then, we can be certain the US would unleash the hounds of war without so much as a pause and start bombing with cries of "we have to fight them there or we will have to fight them here" and "54 - 40 or fight. The USA would be on condition very ****ing red and defcom five, nuked and ready.

    Putin haters please note, the Russian president went about his business at the winter Olympics, issuing protests at the international level and the UN. He did not act until after several warnings went unheard and the Winter Olympics, so important to Russians, were over.
    It would seem that you either lack the understanding and knowledge of history or you simply did not apply yourself when evaluating the analogy.

    Canada was never a part of the United States.
    Ukraine was however, a part of the Soviet Union.

    It is off topic, but I also think you GREATLY over estimate the value most Americans place on Canada. Sure, America would help you out. But not to the extent you seem to think.

    Texas on the other hand, is a part of the United States just as Ukraine was a part of the Soviet Union.

    Just under 50% of the Ukraine population (including Crimea) favor Russia and identify as Russian.
    If you are trying to say that Just under 50% of Canadians identify as people of the United States, then I beg to differ.

  9. #39
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    Re: Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Painter View Post
    It would seem that you either lack the understanding and knowledge of history or you simply did not apply yourself when evaluating the analogy.

    Canada was never a part of the United States.
    Ukraine was however, a part of the Soviet Union.

    It is off topic, but I also think you GREATLY over estimate the value most Americans place on Canada. Sure, America would help you out. But not to the extent you seem to think.

    Texas on the other hand, is a part of the United States just as Ukraine was a part of the Soviet Union.

    Just under 50% of the Ukraine population (including Crimea) favor Russia and identify as Russian.
    If you are trying to say that Just under 50% of Canadians identify as people of the United States, then I beg to differ.


    Canada is more than well aware that the US would likely sit on its hands if we were attacked....that trip to Kandahar means nothing to you.

    And, your cheap, childish insults aside, I am more than a little aware that Canada was never part of the United States, but thank you so much for reminding me.

    And thank you also for demonstrating complete ignorance of the current situation in Ukraine, as the Canada in place of Ukraine has been the mainstay of the comparison by Russia and used at the UN.

    BTW, Ukraine was NEVER part of Russia. It was part of the USSR.

    But thanks for the history lesson.
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
    Donald Trump, 11/23/17

  10. #40
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    Re: Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government?

    We should not get involved. We are not the world's police and we should stop acting like we are. If the world as a whole wants to work together to intervene in this conflict, then we can happily be a part of it. But what we don't need is unilateral American action. Least of all because of leftover Cold War paranoia.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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