View Poll Results: Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government

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  • Yes

    18 51.43%
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    16 45.71%
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Thread: Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government?

  1. #21
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    Re: Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Recently the President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko appealed to a joint session of Congress asking for more support from the United States. My question is, "Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government? "

    Info here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujSP...RX8-EiaN3XFrSQ
    Yes

    We should be supplying them with weapons, not blankets and MREs. Standing by and doing nothing while Putin acts like a bully is sending the wrong message.

  2. #22
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    Re: Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    Yes

    We should be supplying them with weapons, not blankets and MREs. Standing by and doing nothing while Putin acts like a bully is sending the wrong message.
    No, not weapons. All the non-weaponized support in the world, and all the economic sanctions we can (and they're more effective than most people seem to think), but not weapons. Why? If we do that, how far are we from getting our troops involved? The very last thing I would want is ground combat between two nuclear-armed nations. The freedom of the Ukraine is NOT worth risking that.

    Obama's taking the wisest path he can - all the non-military support he can send, garnering the support of NATO (and getting the Ukraine to officially join the EU), and placing economic sanctions on the Russians. These make it much harder for the Russians to effectively continue, while at the same time minimizing the risk of all-out war with a nation with many thousands of nuclear weapons.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  3. #23
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    Re: Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    No, not weapons. All the non-weaponized support in the world, and all the economic sanctions we can (and they're more effective than most people seem to think), but not weapons. Why? If we do that, how far are we from getting our troops involved? The very last thing I would want is ground combat between two nuclear-armed nations. The freedom of the Ukraine is NOT worth risking that.
    Slippery slope fallacy?
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Hah. If someone put me in their sig, I'd never know. I have sigs off.

  4. #24
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    Re: Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Slippery slope fallacy?
    It might very well be a fallacy...but do you really want to risk being wrong when the stakes are, you know, worldwide devastation and the end of modern civilization?
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  5. #25
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    Re: Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    It might very well be a fallacy...but do you really want to risk being wrong when the stakes are, you know, worldwide devastation and the end of modern civilization?
    I wouldn't want to risk being wrong about gay marriage if that would lead to rampant pedophilia and bestiality, but there is no evidence such would occur. Both the Soviets and the US managed to arm each others' enemies without global nuclear annihilation.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Hah. If someone put me in their sig, I'd never know. I have sigs off.

  6. #26
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    Re: Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    I wouldn't want to risk being wrong about gay marriage if that would lead to rampant pedophilia and bestiality, but there is no evidence such would occur. Both the Soviets and the US managed to arm each others' enemies without global nuclear annihilation.
    And you're making a wildly inaccurate comparison. There is indeed no evidence linking gay marriage to whatever, but there is MUCH evidence that a relatively small conflict can result in a great war that few could have seen coming. See "World War One", for instance.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  7. #27
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    Re: Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government?

    We should mind our own business when it comes to former Soviet territories.
    NATO was about "DEFENSE" vs the Soviet Union. It was never about acquiring their territory in the event of Soviet collapse.

    Either disband NATO or get the **** out of Soviet territories.
    NATO was meant to be defensive, not offensive.

  8. #28
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    Re: Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Painter View Post
    We should mind our own business when it comes to former Soviet territories.
    The Soviet Union no longer exists. What you champion here amounts to nothing less than creating yet another Iron Curtain of subjugation.


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  9. #29
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    Re: Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    The Soviet Union no longer exists. What you champion here amounts to nothing less than creating yet another Iron Curtain of subjugation.
    The Soviet Union does still exist in the only way that is relevant to NATO.
    The Soviet icon is still stamped on over 2,000 nuclear warheads.

    It would only take a small handful of nuclear detonations to completely destroy our Nation. After such a strike, we will turn on each other and do the rest of our destruction by our own hand.
    If you have even the slightest doubt that this is true, then you have never lived in a natural disaster zone and seen just how fast things go to hell once our grid is down and we have no more gas and food products flowing into a populated area.

    The military power (nuclear power) of the Soviet Union is just as significant as it was 30 years ago. Only now it is much more dangerous than before due to a multitude of reasons, most of which center on instability.

    Regardless of what is said, NATO's primary function is for MAD. (Mutual Assured Destruction) This is currently and has always been the only meaningful role of NATO.

    As long as those 2,000+ Soviet warheads continue to exist, the Soviet Union exists in the eyes of NATO.
    To screw around with this is a fool's errand.

    NATO can not be allowed to expand.
    M.A.D. must remain intact.
    And we need to mind our own damned business with former Soviet Satellite Nations.

  10. #30
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    Re: Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    It might very well be a fallacy...but do you really want to risk being wrong when the stakes are, you know, worldwide devastation and the end of modern civilization?
    I sincerely doubt Putin would engage in a nuclear exchange over Ukraine. He may be a bully, but he isn't psychotic.

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