If you were military would you refuse to "fight" the Ebola virus.

Bodhisattva said:

Crossing the line Nazi (for lack of a better description) kind of stuff. Executing people is probably way over the top but firing into a crowd with women and children or detonating a car with unknown occupants. I don't know the possibility's because I have never been in combat but I am sure there are situations that merit individual soldiers moral input.

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No member of the military is required to follow an illegal order. The UCMJ sets what an illegal order would be, to include breaking the various Conventions of War. So, no, a member of the military would not have to follow an order to fire into a crowd of women and children or use a car bomb as a weapon.

Good question - with the parameters you added. It's less of a moral question as it would be a question of legality. Especially since what I said is also true, that many of the actions taken during combat could be seen as immoral by some people. That's why the military relies upon the UCMJ and the various Conventions on War to define and guide their actions, not morality.

Just because your media gives you the impression that nobody else is doing anything doesn't make it true. William Pooley the British nurse volunteer who got Ebola has recovered, and is planning to go back. Medecins Sans Frontieres (Doctors without Borders) is a world famous French based organisation treating Ebola sufferers. The rest of the world's reaction has been shambolic, The WHO understimated the size of the problem and everyone is running to catch up with the disease.
The American aid is mostly going to Liberia, which was set up as a colony in Africa for freed slaves who wished to return "home" to go to, so there's a connection.

Bodhisattva said:

Sounds about like what I imagined. If they are sent they should go and not argue about it. A Taliban rifle is no less lethal than Ebola. Not sure why the OP was even raised.

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There's a knot of people in American society who are fussy about these kinds of "plague outbreaks." Same segment that obsesses over bad zombie fiction on Kindle.

APACHERAT said:

I would say something since it's not the job of the U.S. military to play "Peace Corps." Using the military for these humanitarian missions only downgrades the military combat readiness of the U.S. military.

If I were ordered to wear the "blue helmet" I would refuse to wear the blue helmet on the grounds that it is an unlawful order. Court martial me. I seem to remember a soldier or Marine doing the same thing when President Clinton tried to order our soldiers to wear the blue helmet.

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You would be court martialed and rightly so. I wore the blue beret (which I was given on my last day as a keepsake), but never the blue helmet. What this shows is a lack of understanding of the US and the UN. The US never wears the blue helmet and never comes under UN command.

Beaudreaux said:

No member of the military is required to follow an illegal order. The UCMJ sets what an illegal order would be, to include breaking the various Conventions of War. So, no, a member of the military would not have to follow an order to fire into a crowd of women and children or use a car bomb as a weapon.

Good question - with the parameters you added. It's less of a moral question as it would be a question of legality. Especially since what I said is also true, that many of the actions taken during combat could be seen as immoral by some people. That's why the military relies upon the UCMJ and the various Conventions on War to define and guide their actions, not morality.

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Good distinction. Legality... not morality. I will frame future questions with that in mind.

herenow1 said:

It's my understanding that half of the people who get EBola die.

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Much higher than that overall but significantly lower with high quality care and treatment, which in the event of any member of the US forces contracting it, they would be guaranteed.

herenow1 said:

People who have used every precaution still ended up getting it.

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No, people who use every precaution possible are pretty much guaranteed not to catch it. It's spreading because all of the precautions aren't, often can't be, taken.

herenow1 said:

I just don't understand why it's always us that gets involved. Why don't other countries ever offer to help? I just don't have a good feeling about this. Do I feel for these people? Yes I do. Do I feel like we already have our hands in multiple pots? Yes!

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It isn't just the US, other countries and organisations are helping. The world does often to to the US because you have massive resources and can provide this level of support without blinking an eye (economically at least).

The fact the US (and not just the US) is involved in a whole load of much less worthy situations (or at least in less worthy ways) around the world is largely a separate issue.

Morality Games said:

There's a knot of people in American society who are fussy about these kinds of "plague outbreaks." Same segment that obsesses over bad zombie fiction on Kindle.

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Did I tell you about the student I had that thought zombies were real? That she watched a documentary about zombies with her parents on TV? An actual documentary, she said. When I started asking questions, as the entire class was like, "what the ****?" it turned out she had watched 28 Days Later and her whole family thought it was a true story. No ****. Really...

Bodhisattva said:

Sounds about like what I imagined. If they are sent they should go and not argue about it. A Taliban rifle is no less lethal than Ebola. Not sure why the OP was even raised.

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I would go in a heartbeat to help, if I was still in the military. As a civilian, I have other commitments that prevent me from doing so.

NIMBY said:

Yet you didn't speak to what I said of the politicsw of wanting to use ACA funding, knowing I don't lie .

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That's fine with me. If the American peoples wishes were listen too, there would be no ACA. The ACA is a purely Democratic party agenda passed and made into law against the wishes of the majority of Americans.

Below are the polls thanks to RCP of public opinion on the ACA when the Senate passed it in November of 2009
CNN/Opinion Research 12/2-12/3 36% for 61% Against/Oppose +25
Rasmussen Reports 11/29 - 11/29 41% for 53% Against/Oppose +12
Gallup 11/20-11/22 44% for 49% Against/Oppose +5
Ipsos/McClatchy 11/19 - 11/22 34% for 46% Against/Oppose +12
Rasmussen Reports 11/21 - 11/22 38% for 56% Against/Oppose +18
FOX News 11/17 - 11/18 35% for 51% Against/Oppose +16
PPP (D) 11/13 - 11/15 40% for 52% Against/Oppose +12

Below are the polls thanks to RCP of public opinion on the ACA when the House passed it in March of 2010
Bloomberg 3/19 - 3/22 38% for 50% Against/Oppose +12
CNN/Opinion Research 3/19 - 3/21 39% for 59% Against/Oppose +20
CBS News 3/18 - 3/21 37% for 48% Against/Oppose +11
Rasmussen Reports 3/19 - 3/20 41% for 54% Against/Oppose +13
Quinnipiac 3/16 - 3/21 36% for 54% Against/Oppose +18
Democracy Corps (D) 3/15 - 3/18 40% for 52% Against/Oppose +12
FOX News 3/16 - 3/17 35% 55% Against/Oppose +20

The Democrats in congress said to the American People, you do not count. We know what is best for you and since we know what is best, you get what we want you to have whether you want it or not.

Actually there really is only two things that give me heartburn with the Democratic Party since Obama has become president, the ACA and Reid's detonation of the nuclear bomb. The rest I was either for or could live with as I considered it really no big thing. It takes a lot for something to get under my skin, the ACA and the explosion of Reid's Nuke did that though.

Beaudreaux said:

You would be court martialed and rightly so. I wore the blue beret (which I was given on my last day as a keepsake), but never the blue helmet. What this shows is a lack of understanding of the US and the UN. The US never wears the blue helmet and never comes under UN command.

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I'm referring to this.

What Master Do U.S. Servicemen Serve?

>" "No man can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other."
So what master do U.S. servicemen serve: the U.S. Constitution or the United Nations Charter? The U.S. Army is trying to repeal the Biblical truism and tell our soldiers: Wear the red-white-and-blue U.S. Flag on the subordinate left arm, the blue UN insignia on the senior right arm, and cap it off with the UN blue helmet or the UN blue beret.

For at least three years in the Balkans and elsewhere, the U.S. Army has been quietly pursuing the practice of requiring American soldiers to wear these UN uniforms. Now, one brave soldier has had the temerity to dissent.

U.S. Army Specialist E-4 Michael G. New, a medic with the Third Infantry Division, will be arraigned this week in Germany, preparatory to a court martial, for the offense of disobeying the Army's order to "appear in United Nations uniform" instead of his U.S. Army uniform.

The order to New is one implementation of Presidential Decision Directive 25 (PDD 25), in which Bill Clinton asserted his authority "to place U.S. forces under the operational control of a foreign commander." The Clinton Administration has kept PDD 25 a secret document under lock and key, but the State Department "summary," dated May 1994, contains enough information to enable us to challenge its constitutionality.

On August 21, New's Army commanders informed him that he would soon be ordered to Macedonia as part of a UN "peacekeeping" operation, for which he would be required to wear the blue UN helmet and the blue UN arm band with UN insignia. These changes are meaningful and important; if they were not, then refusing to wear them would not result in a court-martial with the possible punishment of imprisonment or bad conduct discharge..."<

What Master Do U.S. Servicemen Serve? - Phyllis Schlafly Column 11/02/95


Ex-soldier appeals conviction for refusing order

>" A former U.S. soldier asked a federal appeals court yesterday to throw out his decade-old conviction for refusing an order to don a United Nations uniform and deploy as a peacekeeper to Macedonia.

Michael New of Willis, Texas, then a medic stationed in Germany, has petitioned a string of military and federal courts on the grounds that his Army court-martial judge refused to let the jury decide whether Mr. New received a lawful order..."<

Read more: Ex-soldier appeals conviction for refusing order - Washington Times

herenow1 said:

I guess dropping off medication is not enough, we now have to send our troops to face possible death.

If you were ordered to go by the president, would you follow orders, or would you say no and face a dishonorable discharge?

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I would obey those orders.It wouldn't be a pleasant experience though. It sucks breathing through a gas mask but you get used to it.And wearing NBC gear can make you sweat your ass off. Although the military might have changed the standard issue NBC gear for infantry soldiers in the past 10 or so years.

Perotista said:

That's fine with me. If the American peoples wishes were listen too, there would be no ACA. The ACA is a purely Democratic party agenda passed and made into law against the wishes of the majority of Americans.

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Your continued diversions on ACA to that past bull**** and not dealing with what happened today is noted and dismissed.
Please let me know when yer serious at who is playing politics with war and ebola.

How do you like FOX/GOPs lying that ISIL is crossing the Southern border?
That ISIL is preparing to launch car-bomb attacks--all FOX lies debunked.

Pretty sick bunch that GOP with their negative Nixonian garbage don't you think?
Just as with the GOP sickos making campaign ads using beheadings .

APACHERAT said:

I would say something since it's not the job of the U.S. military to play "Peace Corps." Using the military for these humanitarian missions only downgrades the military combat readiness of the U.S. military.

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Even Krauhammer on FOX praised the President for what he is doing Apache.
And said no other force could do this job .

NIMBY said:

Even Krauhammer on FOX praised the President for what he is doing Apache.
And said no other force could do this job .

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Charles Krauthammer doesn't speak for me or does he have any influence over me.

What ever happened to the Peace Corps ? You remember them, wait a sec, your to young.

Well anyways it was one way of avoiding the draft and participating in nation building.

I'm sure there are enough civilian volunteers (3,000 doctors, nurses, etc.) who are just jumping at a chance to go to Africa.

Put the 3,000 troops on our border instead.

NIMBY said:

Your continued diversions on ACA to that past bull**** and not dealing with what happened today is noted and dismissed.
Please let me know when yer serious at who is playing politics with war and ebola.

How do you like FOX/GOPs lying that ISIL is crossing the Southern border?
That ISIL is preparing to launch car-bomb attacks--all FOX lies debunked.

Pretty sick bunch that GOP with their negative Nixonian garbage don't you think?
Just as with the GOP sickos making campaign ads using beheadings .

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First in you post number 7 you said this and I quote:
Now a GOP congressman is asking for money from the ACA fund for ebola.

That I pretty much ignored or tried to ignore that. Then you came back in post number 23 with this demanding an answer:

Yet you didn't speak to what I said of the politicsw of wanting to use ACA funding, knowing I don't lie .

Which you wanted my comments on the ACA and using ACA funds. I answered that as I really do not care one iota if they use ACA funds or not. If they do that is fine with me, I really do not care and then proceeded to give you my reasons why I do not care if they use ACA funds or not.

Now you are saying and I quote: Your continued diversions on ACA to that past bull**** and not dealing with what happened today is noted and dismissed.

Seems to me I answered that in my way since you would not let me ignore it as I first tried to do. I also said I haven’t had the TV set on today and that is still true. What FOX says is their business as is what MSNBC says is theirs. One is in bed with one party, the other in bed with the other party. Perhaps you ought to stick with CNN, they are less overt about their stations political allegiance. You do not want a diatribe on the ACA, then please let me ignore it when you bring it up and it won’t happen.

herenow1 said:

I guess dropping off medication is not enough, we now have to send our troops to face possible death.

If you were ordered to go by the president, would you follow orders, or would you say no and face a dishonorable discharge?

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....no.

I was willing to go face down people who were actively trying to kill me. Why would the task of bringing aid to those who are suffering somehow make me any less willing to accept risk in the course of my duties?

herenow1 said:

I guess dropping off medication is not enough, we now have to send our troops to face possible death.

If you were ordered to go by the president, would you follow orders, or would you say no and face a dishonorable discharge?

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Soldiers are not rocket scientists. They are trained/programmed/brainwashed/disciplined to follow orders and definitely not to think. The program works better with younger individuals. Often, a duty assignment like this would be all volunteers. They think they are going to help, but they also think they are going to help when they go to Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. We didn't help Russia send humanitarian aid to Ukraine. We didn't send some additional doctors with the 125 Cuban doctors. We didn't help Assad in Syria fight ISIS. We didn't help Palestinians. I've seen so much duplicity from our government, I have real difficulty accepting, at face value, any of our actions. I don't see 3000 soldiers helping. I see 3000 sterile rooms helping. I see 3000 viles of ZMaxx helping. I see even one doctor helping. I see 3000 portable isolation units helping. Maybe I'm a little paranoid about government duplicity.

DaveFagan said:

Soldiers are not rocket scientists

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Actually some are.

They are trained/programmed/brainwashed/disciplined to follow orders and definitely not to think.

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:lol: My first platoon commander was a two-time Jeopardy champion. I had a conversation today with a MSgt about the Bayesian implications of crowd-sourcing complex problem sets that blew my mind. By and large, most of the smartest people I've met have been in the military.

I don't see 3000 soldiers helping. I see 3000 sterile rooms helping. I see 3000 viles of ZMaxx helping. I see even one doctor helping. I see 3000 portable isolation units helping. Maybe I'm a little paranoid about government duplicity.

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:roll: yeah. because there are no medical personnel in the military.

DOD assets are being called in it seems largely to provide lift for medical equipment, medicine, and food aid, and training for local medical workers.

cpwill said:

Actually some are.



:lol: My first platoon commander was a two-time Jeopardy champion. I had a conversation today with a MSgt about the Bayesian implications of crowd-sourcing complex problem sets that blew my mind. By and large, most of the smartest people I've met have been in the military.



:roll: yeah. because there are no medical personnel in the military.

DOD assets are being called in it seems largely to provide lift for medical equipment, medicine, and food aid, and training for local medical workers.

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One of us is having delusions. I'm suggesting they will send 3,000 grunts and you are implying that they will send the best and brightest. One of us is wrong.

Currently it pretty much requires contact with an infected person and their fluids to get Ebola. Our troops would probably be sent to protect medication and food supplies and to be peacekeepers. Not anymore dangerous than food and med drops into Somalia (not that those werent dangerous).

However the question still needs to be answered by politicians facing a different reality: someday there will most likely be a highly infectious epidemic here in the US and troops and the Nat Guard will be expected to:

--maintain quarantine lines in infected areas (contagion zones)
--shoot fellow Americans that attempt to break thru quarantine lines
--remain on post instead of going home to be with/protect their own families.

Of course, it'd be my job.

And soldiers don't face chance of death going into some Middle Eastern battlefield? Danger is in the job description.

Stop trying to be slick, OP.

Sherman123 said:

Any soldier who refuses should be prosecuted.

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Paleocon said:

I would do my duty, obviously.

Anyone who refused such an order should be court martialed.

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Yup.

Gathomas88 said:

"Fight" the virus how, exactly?

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Train medical workers, build medical facilities, etc

DaveFagan said:

One of us is having delusions. I'm suggesting they will send 3,000 grunts and you are implying that they will send the best and brightest. One of us is wrong.

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Going by your past posting history I would say it is most likely you having delusions. Why in the hell would they send grunts other than enough to provide security. You need to lay off the conspiracy theory crap.
What is funny is I have now worked in the private sector and the military for pretty equal time and not only have I not met any brainwashed people but over all I would say the quality of individual in the military is higher than outside.

herenow1 said:

I guess dropping off medication is not enough, we now have to send our troops to face possible death.

If you were ordered to go by the president, would you follow orders, or would you say no and face a dishonorable discharge?

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Oh dear gawd! Really? Does it matter where you're sent to die? Was it ok to die in the Iraqi desert for George Bush's lie in Iraq, but not ok to risk ones life to save lives in Africa?

cpwill said:

Actually some are.



:lol: My first platoon commander was a two-time Jeopardy champion. I had a conversation today with a MSgt about the Bayesian implications of crowd-sourcing complex problem sets that blew my mind. By and large, most of the smartest people I've met have been in the military.



:roll: yeah. because there are no medical personnel in the military.

DOD assets are being called in it seems largely to provide lift for medical equipment, medicine, and food aid, and training for local medical workers.

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Lol, most of the smartest people you've met have been in the military!!!! Small circles you walk.