View Poll Results: When SHOULD we punish famour people for their transgressions?

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  • Upon it becoming public knowledge.

    0 0%
  • Upon indictment/charges filed.

    1 3.70%
  • Upon conviction.

    20 74.07%
  • Other. (Please elaborate)

    6 22.22%
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Thread: When SHOULD we punish famour people for their transgressions?

  1. #11
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    Re: When SHOULD we punish famour people for their transgressions?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Ryan Rice, Adrian Peterson, someone else, take your pick. Goes for athletes, actors, politicians, anybody famous and/or in the public eye. Those who have allegedly done unacceptable acts to other people, and their heads are being called for. But slow down for a second... when **SHOULD** we be punishing people who do these things?

    1) Upon it becoming public knowledge.
    2) Upon indictment/charges filed.
    3) Upon conviction.
    4) Other

    Also, is consistency important? If we pick one of the above, should we be consistent for every incident? Or, does the presence of varying evidence (i.e.: video vs hearsay vs verbal accusation, etc.) make a difference?
    I'm not sure what you mean by "punishing", but I think people should make their own judgements however and whenever they want to.

    Personally, I like to see the evidence from both sides, but some stories don't have two sides. Take Ray Rice. Once I saw the video from the elevator, I don't care what his side is. What he did is wrong, and I don't have to wait for a trial to decide what I think of him
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    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  2. #12
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    Re: When SHOULD we punish famour people for their transgressions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I picked #2 as that is sufficient to take legal state action, but one must weigh the "punishment" severity to that of the alleged offense. I assume that you meant a private employer and not the gov't itself.
    Correct, private entities. Sports teams/leagues in the case of athletes. movie studios in the case of actors, and so on.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Well - things are often outlined in contract. Each company should make their own choices and STICK TO IT.

    The problems come when companies include 'statements of ethics and morality' but do little to enforce it - only acting as such when they need to save face.
    I am very much of the mind that if we claim to believe in "innocent until proven guilty" as a legal standard then we should live it in our daily lives outside the legal system as well, otherwise we're just jaw jackin' and don't really believe it. Having said that, if there is a morals clause in a contract, then the should be upheld even if it is prior to, or absent of, any conviction. And I agree that it should be upheld equally.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  3. #13
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    Re: When SHOULD we punish famour people for their transgressions?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean by "punishing", but I think people should make their own judgements however and whenever they want to.

    Personally, I like to see the evidence from both sides, but some stories don't have two sides. Take Ray Rice. Once I saw the video from the elevator, I don't care what his side is. What he did is wrong, and I don't have to wait for a trial to decide what I think of him
    In the case of Rice, a suspension/banishment. For example.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: When SHOULD we punish famour people for their transgressions?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    In the case of Rice, a suspension/banishment. For example.
    In the case of employment, it should be up to the employer
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: When SHOULD we punish famour people for their transgressions?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Ryan Rice, Adrian Peterson, someone else, take your pick. Goes for athletes, actors, politicians, anybody famous and/or in the public eye. Those who have allegedly done unacceptable acts to other people, and their heads are being called for. But slow down for a second... when **SHOULD** we be punishing people who do these things?

    1) Upon it becoming public knowledge.
    2) Upon indictment/charges filed.
    3) Upon conviction.
    4) Other

    Also, is consistency important? If we pick one of the above, should we be consistent for every incident? Or, does the presence of varying evidence (i.e.: video vs hearsay vs verbal accusation, etc.) make a difference?
    Upon conviction, of course, just like anyone else. Until they have been convicted, they're presumed innocent.
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    Re: When SHOULD we punish famour people for their transgressions?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Ryan Rice, Adrian Peterson, someone else, take your pick. Goes for athletes, actors, politicians, anybody famous and/or in the public eye. Those who have allegedly done unacceptable acts to other people, and their heads are being called for. But slow down for a second... when **SHOULD** we be punishing people who do these things?

    1) Upon it becoming public knowledge.
    2) Upon indictment/charges filed.
    3) Upon conviction.
    4) Other

    Also, is consistency important? If we pick one of the above, should we be consistent for every incident? Or, does the presence of varying evidence (i.e.: video vs hearsay vs verbal accusation, etc.) make a difference?
    I don't think there is a rule. I think it will always vary by what took place and who are the main sponsors or followers of the entertainer.

    They are entertainers and have a different set of rules applied to them. If they mess up it can ruin the image of any organization associated with them from their employer to any sponsors.

    It's the "downside" of making millions for acting or throwing a football. You yourself have become a brand and a unique commodity. Your actions have much more repercussions than the normal worker that is usually just a cog in his large organization.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: When SHOULD we punish famour people for their transgressions?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Ryan Rice, Adrian Peterson, someone else, take your pick. Goes for athletes, actors, politicians, anybody famous and/or in the public eye. Those who have allegedly done unacceptable acts to other people, and their heads are being called for. But slow down for a second... when **SHOULD** we be punishing people who do these things?

    1) Upon it becoming public knowledge.
    2) Upon indictment/charges filed.
    3) Upon conviction.
    4) Other

    Also, is consistency important? If we pick one of the above, should we be consistent for every incident? Or, does the presence of varying evidence (i.e.: video vs hearsay vs verbal accusation, etc.) make a difference?
    Probably a poorly worded question. How do you mean "we"? "We" as private individuals who can withhold our fandom? Then whenever we want, for whatever reason we want. "We" as the government, then not without a conviction and by the same standards as anyone else. If you actually meant the business that employs them, that is not we, and the answer would be found within the contract the employer and employee.

    So there is no actual answer to your poll.
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    Re: When SHOULD we punish famour people for their transgressions?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Ryan Rice, Adrian Peterson, someone else, take your pick. Goes for athletes, actors, politicians, anybody famous and/or in the public eye. Those who have allegedly done unacceptable acts to other people, and their heads are being called for. But slow down for a second... when **SHOULD** we be punishing people who do these things?

    1) Upon it becoming public knowledge.
    2) Upon indictment/charges filed.
    3) Upon conviction.
    4) Other

    Also, is consistency important? If we pick one of the above, should we be consistent for every incident? Or, does the presence of varying evidence (i.e.: video vs hearsay vs verbal accusation, etc.) make a difference?
    I think it depends on the situation. Nobody, including Ray Rice denies that its him in that video. Nobody, including Adrian Peterson denies that he left those marks on his son. The NFL has enough to decide whether or not to suspend them in those cases.

    For example, Peterson's case in court is going to rest on whether or not his punishment for his son is actually a crime or not. If the NFL believes that the marks he left on his son are worthy of suspension then they should suspend him now, regardless of whether or not it turns out to actually be a crime.

    In cases where its less clear that the action actually occurred, then the punishments should probably wait.
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    Re: When SHOULD we punish famour people for their transgressions?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Ryan Rice, Adrian Peterson, someone else, take your pick. Goes for athletes, actors, politicians, anybody famous and/or in the public eye. Those who have allegedly done unacceptable acts to other people, and their heads are being called for. But slow down for a second... when **SHOULD** we be punishing people who do these things?

    1) Upon it becoming public knowledge.
    2) Upon indictment/charges filed.
    3) Upon conviction.
    4) Other

    Also, is consistency important? If we pick one of the above, should we be consistent for every incident? Or, does the presence of varying evidence (i.e.: video vs hearsay vs verbal accusation, etc.) make a difference?
    I guess it depends on what you consider "punish".

    A celebrity should do the same jail time as a non-celebrity when they're convicted. I don't think there is anything wrong with the NFL or another company firing (banning, etc) when someone does something so negative that it damages their public brand, even without a conviction, though. I don't think a company necessarily needs to fire someone who does something negative but I understand why potential consumers react negatively when it happens.

  10. #20
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    Re: When SHOULD we punish famour people for their transgressions?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Ryan Rice, Adrian Peterson, someone else, take your pick. Goes for athletes, actors, politicians, anybody famous and/or in the public eye. Those who have allegedly done unacceptable acts to other people, and their heads are being called for. But slow down for a second... when **SHOULD** we be punishing people who do these things?

    1) Upon it becoming public knowledge.
    2) Upon indictment/charges filed.
    3) Upon conviction.
    4) Other

    Also, is consistency important? If we pick one of the above, should we be consistent for every incident? Or, does the presence of varying evidence (i.e.: video vs hearsay vs verbal accusation, etc.) make a difference?
    So are you only asking about famous people who commit transgressions?

    For athletes - that isn't my call. It should be at the discretion of the employer.
    For politicians - depends on what it is. People are innocent until proven guilty, and let's face it - false accusations wouldn't be unheard of.
    For actors, singers, whatever - see "for athletes" answer.

    Consistency is important if we're talking about the same entity (Minnesota Vikings, MGM Grand Hotel, etc.). I don't think you can make a one size fits all outside of those lines.

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