View Poll Results: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

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  • Yes

    29 38.16%
  • No

    43 56.58%
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    4 5.26%
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Thread: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

  1. #81
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    We know what the USSC says. But do you believe spending money is speech?
    Yes.

    You may recall the summer of 2012 when large crowds gathered at Chick-fil-as all over the country to support Chick-fil-a's leadership and their support of traditional marriage. People came out in large crowds and ended up sending a very strong message.

    People cast their vote for this subject at one of the most important voting boxes we have--the cash register.
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meister View Post
    What????????
    You're really stretching to make a case for your side with that post. just sayin'....
    For my side eh? LOL...

    Citizens United was a horrendous decision which put the US stamp of approval for commodifying free speech which means you have to pay to play. The Constitution gives no clause for this. It isn't a stretch, it is precise in that when you start commodifying our rights than you are going to have a situation where you're only allowed to exercise your rights if you can afford to. There is already an imbalance in our judicial system in this regard. Supporting something like this only compounds it.

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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    We know what the USSC says. But do you believe spending money is speech?

    The concept of "speech" in the original constitution is now being defined as "freedom of expression".

    If you begin with the idea that spending money on advertising is an extension of free speech, then obviously spending money is a form of expression. The same would thne apply if you were buying your wife a Cadillac to show your undying love or need for massive forgiveness.

    Buying another company and breaking into little pieces and firing the workers would also be a form of expression, however most advanced societies see the expression of unvarnished greed as kind of ugly.
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
    Donald Trump, 11/23/17

  4. #84
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    We know what the USSC says. But do you believe spending money is speech?
    No. Speech is what you say, write, etc. Speech does not require money. Money only facilitates wider distribution of your speech.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  5. #85
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    No. Speech is what you say, write, etc. Speech does not require money. Money only facilitates wider distribution of your speech.
    Speech sends a message. You send a message when you send....both implicit and explicit.

    I havent had time to read the entire thread yet but it's an interesting topic to explore.
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    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
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    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  6. #86
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Speech is an expression of ideas. People can express ideas with their own vocal chords, or they can do so using their vocal chords through a loud speaker, or they can write their ideas, and they can pay to print the written expression of ideas in various places, or they can express the ideas in any of a wide variety and combination of ways.

    Some of the ways in which a person can express his/her ideas cost money to be able to express them the way they want. There is not a legitimate reason to infringe upon their ability to express ideas, nor any legitimate way to say they can't spend their own money expressing their ideas.

    If our people in general are so utterly brainless that they believe whatever propaganda they see on a TV commercial, then we're screwed in any case, and not because people are allowed to express ideas, but because people who hear those ideas are so stupid that they don't think critically about them.

    We need a populace that thinks critically and investigates the truthfulness of dubious claims they hear from people with an agenda. We don't need to protect the populace from ideas based on the assumption that they can't think critically about them. That would just mean that someone is appointed censor over the society, which is just as bad and for all the same reasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Spending money is an economic transaction. The act of communicating a message is speaking. You have the right to communicate a message. Buying something is not communicating a message, and regardless of what method you choose to use to communicate it, you're still communicating it. Even if certain methods are unavailable to you (like they are to every last one of us), other methods are available. Spending money is a wholly different thing than speaking.

    In a nutshell, NO!
    I couldn't have said it any better myself.

    The problem with the ruling behind Citizens United is that "the people's right to peacefully assemble" to have their grievances heard has been co-opted moreso by the wealthy rather than the common man. Moreover, it's not grievances that PACs and SuperPACs are addressing. It's putting forward their campaign message for or against a particular candidate or political party. And when a singular or collective economic force is able to spread a message far and wide across multiple media platforms in such a way that the voice(s) of the opposition is effectively drowned out, it really means that ONE VOICE is being heard at a price tag no one else can possible compete with. No greater evidence of how such drowning out occurred than with the 2012 Republican Presidential Primary when it came down to Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich in Florida. Newt just could not compete because his media war chest had run dry, whereas, Mitt had plenty of money to burn...and burn Newt he did.

    Now, the counter argument is just because you have millions to spend on political advertising doesn't mean you'll win. Such was the case here in AL. But with no ceiling on the limit to campaign contributions, it's unlikely that candidates with small advertising budgets will come out victorious more often than candidates with deep pockets and/or heavy financial backers.

    The other argument, of course, is people have the right to donate money to any candidate they want which is true. But that's part of the problem where "corporations" are wrongfully equated as "people" and "assembly" is passed on to equate to "like-minded people under a political for-profit or non-profit entity" instead of a public gathering. IMO, if people want to assemble for a specific cause to have their grievances heard and a corporation wishes to sponsor the gathering, then the corporation should do so with the knowledge that they get the same benefit every other corporation would receive for their public relations effort - a tax write-off. Otherwise, you don't pure money into a for-/non-profit "corporation" for the sole purpose of political advertising then call it "assembly" and plant such under the guise of "free speech".
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    There is no way to enforce equality in the advertising of ideas. Freedom of expression has nothing to do with equality of expression. It has to do with government not being able to muzzle dissent, and having a responsibility to make sure people aren't muzzling each other.
    The current situation with some candidates and advocates able to buy large amounts of advertising and driving up the cost, and others unable to afford to do so is an example of people muzzling each other. I don't advocate any censorship, only for providing more free and low cost opportunities for candidates and advocates to get their message out to the voters effectively.

  8. #88
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?
    no.

    it is absolutely the role and responsibility of government to regulate the campaign finance system and to shine a light on who is donating, the organizations that they are donating to, and exactly what is being done with that money. this should all be easily accessible public knowledge. otherwise, you get a shadowy system of purchasing preferential legislation, as we have now.

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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I buy organic when I can. It's an expression of my beliefs.
    But you are the only person who knows this
    Speaking to yourself doesnt count.

  10. #90
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by dogtowner View Post
    But you are the only person who knows this
    Speaking to yourself doesnt count.
    I'm speaking to the people in the marketplace, not myself. I'd only be speaking to myself if I purchased the products from myself, after having grown and processed them myself.

    What someone purchases is a reflection of their values and beliefs. It's an expression of those values and beliefs.

    My attempt to manipulate the market towards goods and services that I support is without any ****ing doubt activist expression.

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