View Poll Results: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

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  • Yes

    29 38.16%
  • No

    43 56.58%
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    4 5.26%
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Thread: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

  1. #31
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    If people have a forum in which to communicate their ideas and a choice of forums, then the loss of one of those forums (money) does not necessarily constitute a loss of speech. However if that lost forum was the only available one then yet it does

    There's no real black and white
    In today's situation, the forum that is unavailable to those without money, fame or power, advertising, is essentially the only effective forum for reaching an audience.

  2. #32
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    We know what the USSC says. But do you believe spending money is speech?
    Money is used to buy things that are speech.Like bumper stickers, tv commercials, billboard ads, news paper ads and so on. By restricting money you are restricting a person's ability to buy those things. So when you restrict how much someone may spend on political candidates you are restricting that persons speech.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  3. #33
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Money is used to buy things that are speech.Like bumper stickers, tv commercials, billboard ads, news paper ads and so on. By restricting money you are restricting a person's ability to buy those things. So when you restrict how much someone may spend on political candidates you are restricting that persons speech.
    A better way of putting this question might be: "Should the government have the right to regulate our books, our magazines, our blogs, and our radio broadcasts?"

  4. #34
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    In today's situation, the forum that is unavailable to those without money, fame or power, advertising, is essentially the only effective forum for reaching an audience.
    There is no way to enforce equality in the advertising of ideas. Freedom of expression has nothing to do with equality of expression. It has to do with government not being able to muzzle dissent, and having a responsibility to make sure people aren't muzzling each other.

  5. #35
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    In today's situation, the forum that is unavailable to those without money, fame or power, advertising, is essentially the only effective forum for reaching an audience.
    Which is unfortunate as speech is fundamental to the citizenry and it makes those with fewer means less if a citizen

  6. #36
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by csense View Post
    So is art.

    All three are merely mediums for conveying an idea. It is interesting to note that the physical act of speaking and the printed word have language in common, while the third, art, does not. This means that language, also, is merely a medium, common as it is, for conveying an idea, and that idea does not necessarily need to be unambiguous, such as in art. It is therefore reasonable to conclude that, although in most cases the transfer of money to another is not necessarily" speech," it can be.
    Art is certainly speech. It is expression. The creation of art is an act of sheer expression. A portrait for commission might not qualify, but art is certainly speech. That includes music, dance, or a play. Or whatever you like. That's expressing. Buying something is not expressing.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  7. #37
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Buying something is not expressing.
    It depends what that "something" is.

    If I commission an artist to create a sculpture that conveys a certain opinion, that transaction now falls under the umbrella of the First Amendment. It's a very short walk from there to financially supporting a politician whose views I agree with.

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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by csense View Post
    It depends what that "something" is.

    If I commission an artist to create a sculpture that conveys a certain opinion, that transaction now falls under the umbrella of the First Amendment. It's a very short walk from there to financially supporting a politician whose views I agree with.
    Creating the sculpture is speech (or rather, expression). Buying it isn't. Buying it is commerce. Commerce and speech are different things.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  9. #39
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Creating the sculpture is speech (or rather, expression). Buying it isn't. Buying it is commerce. Commerce and speech are different things.
    But you're trying to stop the person from buying the bronze to prevent the sculptor from making it with a clear censorial motive. When you say that money isn't speech and refer to Citizens United which spent money to make a movie, its clear what the substantive difference is, you want to make it such that they can't spend the money to make the movie. You're trying to make an end run and the bottom line is that they can make the movie and it costs money to make the movie.

    All speakers, including individuals and the media, use money amassed from the economic marketplace to fund their speech, and the First Amendment protects the resulting speech.

    Just like it protects your right to expend funds to purchase the devices and connections to this very forum.

  10. #40
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by csense View Post
    It depends what that "something" is.

    If I commission an artist to create a sculpture that conveys a certain opinion, that transaction now falls under the umbrella of the First Amendment. It's a very short walk from there to financially supporting a politician whose views I agree with.
    Precisely because there are people who fund speech but aren't actually good at it, so they commission the project accordingly. They're trading whatever it is that they specialize in for something expressive and it is indeed protected.

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