View Poll Results: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

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  • Yes

    29 38.16%
  • No

    43 56.58%
  • Other

    4 5.26%
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Thread: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

  1. #121
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    lol

    No.

    Freedom of Speech is seen as an inherent right. That means that even the poorest of the poor have it as a right.

    Money gives you access to ways in which you can spread your opinions and views. It is not a form of expression in and of itself.

    One main logical reason why not:

    If tomorrow the dollar's value drops to 0 and suddenly we're worthless and can't even buy a drop of water to drink that doesn't mean we no longer have freedom of speech.

    Also: what if tomorrow TV's suddenly disappeared off the face of the earth? And books? Those are just forms of communication.

    What the above quote tells us is that some people value the concept of money *way too much*.
    These people falsely believe that being rich = being worthy of more attention or respect. (Or your vote).

    What if no one gave a listening ear to anyone using money to advertise? Suddenly advertising has no purpose. You must have an audience that is receptive and supportive in order for your advertisements to be fruitful.

    And that is not what a 'freedoms' and 'rights' mean. Freedoms and rights are not something that can be shut out. Freedoms and rights cannot be devalued, stockpiled, and traded on the stock market, or bought.
    Uhhh this is the USSC decision, not mine.. You asked where they decided this and I provided it...


  2. #122
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Uhhh this is the USSC decision, not mine.. You asked where they decided this and I provided it...
    I'm giving my opinion in response to their decision - not you I disagree with their assessment.
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  3. #123
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by newpublius View Post
    No, it isn't. They spend the money to purchase all of the necessary inputs to publish, print, distribute, disseminate online and otherwise produce the speech that they actually produce. The speech wouldn't exist but for the expenditure and you damn well know it.
    Yes, I "damn well" know all that. That does not make money a form of speech though.
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    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
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  4. #124
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Yes, I "damn well" know all that. That does not make money a form of speech though.
    "A power to tax differentially, as opposed to a power to tax generally, gives a government a powerful weapon against the taxpayer selected. When the State imposes a generally applicable tax, there is little cause for concern. We need not fear that a government will destroy a selected group of taxpayers by burdensome taxation if it must impose the same burden on the rest of its constituency. See Railway Express Agency, Inc. v. New York,336 U. S. 106, 336 U. S. 112-113 (1949) (Jackson, J., concurring). When the State singles out the press, though, the political constraints that prevent a legislature from passing crippling taxes of general applicability are weakened, and the threat of burdensome taxes becomes acute. That threat can operate as effectively as a censor to check critical comment by the press, undercutting the basic assumption of our political system that the press will often serve as an important restraint on government. See generally Stewart, "Or of the Press," 26 Hastings L.J. 631, 634 (1975). "[A]n untrammeled press [is] a vital source of public information," Grosjean, 297 U.S. at 297 U. S. 250, and an informed public is the essence of working democracy."

    So, when people say, "Money isn't speech" they actually mean they didn't want Citizens United to spend the money to make the movie.

    Somehow somebody is going to be stopped from spending money to speak.

  5. #125
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by newpublius View Post
    "A power to tax differentially, as opposed to a power to tax generally, gives a government a powerful weapon against the taxpayer selected. When the State imposes a generally applicable tax, there is little cause for concern. We need not fear that a government will destroy a selected group of taxpayers by burdensome taxation if it must impose the same burden on the rest of its constituency. See Railway Express Agency, Inc. v. New York,336 U. S. 106, 336 U. S. 112-113 (1949) (Jackson, J., concurring). When the State singles out the press, though, the political constraints that prevent a legislature from passing crippling taxes of general applicability are weakened, and the threat of burdensome taxes becomes acute. That threat can operate as effectively as a censor to check critical comment by the press, undercutting the basic assumption of our political system that the press will often serve as an important restraint on government. See generally Stewart, "Or of the Press," 26 Hastings L.J. 631, 634 (1975). "[A]n untrammeled press [is] a vital source of public information," Grosjean, 297 U.S. at 297 U. S. 250, and an informed public is the essence of working democracy."

    So, when people say, "Money isn't speech" they actually mean they didn't want Citizens United to spend the money to make the movie.

    Somehow somebody is going to be stopped from spending money to speak.
    That still does not make money a form of speech...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  6. #126
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    That still does not make money a form of speech...
    The physical means of speaking/publishing actually ARE protected. In an economy based on specialization, you're allowed to trade what you produce for those means. Since we're not in a barter economy or a subsistence economy you trade what you specialize in for money and then trade that money for the specific things that you want and if they stop you from doing that with a censorial motive, they are acting as a censor and infringing your freedom of expression. The result will be that the regulation will be subjected to a stricter form of scrutiny and will obviously fail scrutiny. The 'money isn't speech' crowd simply wants to presume a general applicability and permit the regulation to be subjected to 'rational basis' review. It is a bad argument and the excerpt from the Minnesota Star Tribune shows exactly why.
    Last edited by newpublius; 09-17-14 at 11:43 PM.

  7. #127
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    In a broader sense, an excellent mode to illuminate the doctrine are the civil rights laws. The initial cases were easy to adjudicate actually because the laws weren't facially neutral. They expressly discriminated against African-Americans. After segregation fell, the result was that states had to start writing facially neutral statutes. Of course the problem is that many of those statutes were still made with discriminatory intent, ie. they had a disparate impact. Roundabout discrimination is still discrimination in the same manner that roundabout censoring still infringes on your right to free speech.

  8. #128
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    We know what the USSC says. But do you believe spending money is speech?
    No I don't.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  9. #129
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    no i do not,i can spend money without saying a word,on this we agree.


    run don run

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