View Poll Results: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

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  • Yes

    29 38.16%
  • No

    43 56.58%
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    4 5.26%
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Thread: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

  1. #111
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    If money is a tool that people use to promote their speech, then the speech they practice can't be independent of the money that they spend.
    Independent with regards to being speech. I am independent of my car but the car is a tool that I use to travel.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
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    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  2. #112
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    What if those election laws violate 1A?
    It's just common sense. If freedom of speech, or freedom of religion, etc is taking away other's freedoms, then it is not viable protection. If my religion is to kill people, government has the right to take my freedom of religion away. If an article from the press is going to come out that is going to get a lot of people killed, freedom of press should be undermined in that instance. Maybe 99.9% of stuff is protected, but when it effects the rights of others, no. I could be missing your point though.
    Last edited by laska; 09-16-14 at 07:52 PM.

  3. #113
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by laska View Post
    It's just common sense. If freedom of speech, or freedom of religion, etc is taking away other's freedoms, then it is not viable protection. If my religion is to kill people, government has the right to take my freedom of religion away. If an article from the press is going to come out that is going to get a lot of people killed, freedom of press should be undermined in that instance. Maybe 99.9% of stuff is protected, but when it effects the rights of others, no. I could be missing your point though.
    That's why election laws are unconstitutional when they violate 1A.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    I think the Supreme Court has ruled that money is free speech, correct? I haven't studied their arguments and I may be missing something. I am certainly no Constitutional scholar.

  5. #115
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    The speech they practice is independent of the money that they spend.
    No, it isn't. They spend the money to purchase all of the necessary inputs to publish, print, distribute, disseminate online and otherwise produce the speech that they actually produce. The speech wouldn't exist but for the expenditure and you damn well know it.

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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Sure.

    $40 means 'May I have a lap dance please?'.

  7. #117
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    We know what the USSC says. But do you believe spending money is speech?
    Where does the Commission state this?
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Where does the Commission state this?
    “A restriction on the amount of money a person or group can spend on political communication during a campaign necessarily reduces the quantity of expression by restricting the number of issues discussed, the depth of their exploration, and the size of the audience reached. This is because virtually every means of communicating ideas in today’s mass society requires the expenditure of money. The distribution of the humblest handbill or leaflet entails printing, paper, and circulation costs. Speeches and rallies generally necessitate hiring a hall and publicizing the event. The electorate’s increasing dependence on television, radio, and other mass media for news and information has made these expensive modes of communication indispensable instruments of effective political speech.”
    buckley


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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    We know what the USSC says. But do you believe spending money is speech?


    The same as corporations are people! Bah Humbug!

  10. #120
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    Re: Do You Personally Believe Spending Money is Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    “A restriction on the amount of money a person or group can spend on political communication during a campaign necessarily reduces the quantity of expression by restricting the number of issues discussed, the depth of their exploration, and the size of the audience reached. This is because virtually every means of communicating ideas in today’s mass society requires the expenditure of money. The distribution of the humblest handbill or leaflet entails printing, paper, and circulation costs. Speeches and rallies generally necessitate hiring a hall and publicizing the event. The electorate’s increasing dependence on television, radio, and other mass media for news and information has made these expensive modes of communication indispensable instruments of effective political speech.”
    buckley
    lol

    No.

    Freedom of Speech is seen as an inherent right. That means that even the poorest of the poor have it as a right.

    Money gives you access to ways in which you can spread your opinions and views. It is not a form of expression in and of itself.

    One main logical reason why not:

    If tomorrow the dollar's value drops to 0 and suddenly we're worthless and can't even buy a drop of water to drink that doesn't mean we no longer have freedom of speech.

    Also: what if tomorrow TV's suddenly disappeared off the face of the earth? And books? Those are just forms of communication.

    What the above quote tells us is that some people value the concept of money *way too much*.
    These people falsely believe that being rich = being worthy of more attention or respect. (Or your vote).

    What if no one gave a listening ear to anyone using money to advertise? Suddenly advertising has no purpose. You must have an audience that is receptive and supportive in order for your advertisements to be fruitful.

    And that is not what a 'freedoms' and 'rights' mean. Freedoms and rights are not something that can be shut out. Freedoms and rights cannot be devalued, stockpiled, and traded on the stock market, or bought.

    [and another logical fallacy behind this concept: What if we went to a bartering system. Where tangible items or services were exchanged for other tangible items (pamphlets and books) and services (airtime on the radio). Would that, then, mean that every thing which carried any potential exchangeable value was a 'currency' which was a 'means of expression'. The entire thing is preposterous when you pick apart the further implications of it]
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 09-17-14 at 01:45 AM.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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