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Thread: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

  1. #371
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Well, if there were two parties engaged in the Cold War, and you deny that the US was the instigator, then either your position is that it was the USSR's fault, or you agree that it was a natural occurrence given the mutual distrust of both super powers, and therefore nobody's fault. But I will remain in the camp with those that believe we would have done better to retain the USSR as an ally, as opposed to running a race for the most nuclear weapons. And fighting the senseless proxy wars of the Cold War.
    ehhhh... you forget that in 1945 the soviet union occupied poland, the czech republic, and most of eastern europe.

    are you saying that the soviet union should have kept those territories?
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Well, if there were two parties engaged in the Cold War, and you deny that the US was the instigator, then either your position is that it was the USSR's fault, or you agree that it was a natural occurrence given the mutual distrust of both super powers, and therefore nobody's fault. But I will remain in the camp with those that believe we would have done better to retain the USSR as an ally, as opposed to running a race for the most nuclear weapons. And fighting the senseless proxy wars of the Cold War.
    Retaining the USSR as an ally was possible only if we were willing to allow them to take over our government, turn us into a soviet state, and submit our national policy to their "guidance". They were indeed the aggressor, both ideologically and on the ground post-WWII. Additionally, the Soviets were going to build nukes whether we did nor not (which is why they refused an inspections regime), and so the options were A) maintain parity or B) be overmatched.

    It is indeed natural for the two strongest powers to see each other as threats; particularly culturally both the Russians and the Americans were inclined in this bent. That does not change the specifics of the conflict a whit.

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    ehhhh... you forget that in 1945 the soviet union occupied poland, the czech republic, and most of eastern europe.

    are you saying that the soviet union should have kept those territories?
    I'm saying that our ally at the time, the Soviet Union, lost far more, and suffered far more then we did, and that they learned some brutal lessons which caused them to rethink the security of their borders and the disposition of those states that lay upon it. And, that the very same thing is at play now with their justifiable concerns of NATO that has expanded six times to the east since its creation!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Retaining the USSR as an ally was possible only if we were willing to allow them to take over our government, turn us into a soviet state, and submit our national policy to their "guidance". They were indeed the aggressor, both ideologically and on the ground post-WWII. Additionally, the Soviets were going to build nukes whether we did nor not (which is why they refused an inspections regime), and so the options were A) maintain parity or B) be overmatched.

    It is indeed natural for the two strongest powers to see each other as threats; particularly culturally both the Russians and the Americans were inclined in this bent. That does not change the specifics of the conflict a whit.
    Oh, I totally reject the notion that to maintain our wartime relationship with them that we would have somehow been swallowed up by them.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Oh, I totally reject the notion that to maintain our wartime relationship with them that we would have somehow been swallowed up by them.
    Reality doesn't care if you reject it or not. I would suggest you read up on the Comintern, and its successor directorates. These were people who very much did indeed believe what they said they did when it came to ideology. Corrupt Western bourgeoisie democracy was to be overthrown around the world and replaced. Like ISIS today, these people divided the world into two basic camps: Those who were subservient, and those who were enemies.

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Reality doesn't care if you reject it or not. I would suggest you read up on the Comintern, and its successor directorates. These were people who very much did indeed believe what they said they did when it came to ideology. Corrupt Western bourgeoisie democracy was to be overthrown around the world and replaced. Like ISIS today, these people divided the world into two basic camps: Those who were subservient, and those who were enemies.
    Ah yes, as though the US hasn't divided the world in similar fashion.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    The five strategic failures in the speech are:
    Failing to define the global threat and a global strategy to defeat it
    Failing to define a positive goal
    Failing to explain how we are going to compel so-called allies to do what is necessary to defeat radical Islamism
    Failing to explain how hard and long and frustrating this war will be
    Failing to ask for the resources this kind of war will require
    If left uncorrected these five failures doom the President’s plan to failure.

    Let me explain each failure and why it must be fixed.

    1. Radical Islamism is not an Iraqi or Syrian problem. Radical Islamism has supporters, advocates, recruiters and sources of resources all across the planet.
    As we learned on September 11, 2001, it only takes a few people to do incredible damage. There are more than 10,000 terrorists from over 50 countries who have joined ISIS. Here in the United States, there are recruiters and supporters of ISIS.
    Well over 100 Americans have joined ISIS. Two Minnesotans have been killed in Syria. One of them had clearance to work on the runway of the Minneapolis Airport for a decade. We are lucky he decided to take his terrorist activities to Syria instead of to his day job.
    Radical Islamism includes Boko Haram in Nigeria, elements in Libya, Hamas in Gaza and dozens of groups around the world. President Obama failed to have any global strategy for a viral movement which requires analyzing the problem as an epidemic rather than as a problem between nation-states.

    Without a global strategy we will simply continue the 13-year pattern of failure and the radical Islamist movement will continue to grow.

    2. The worst moment of President Obama's speech was his suggestion that Somalia and Yemen were models of success that his anti-ISIS campaign could follow.
    Both Somalia and Yemen are disasters. Both are host to rampant terrorist activity. Somalia has virtually no government. Yemen has a very weak government which may not survive. If this is the Obama vision of success, it is a horrifying accumulation of human poverty, misery and violence which Americans should repudiate.
    The President is trapped because he is being forced into a fight he doesn't particularly want and he is determined to do as little as possible. That is a formula for imposing violence and destruction on a lot of innocent people who can't defend and protect themselves. America has to develop a positive strategy of growing reliable, self-governing allies. That requires confronting the reality that both anti-terrorism and counter-insurgency campaigns are inadequate models. We do not have the doctrine, the training or the tools today for that project.

    3. One of the great failures in the 13 years since 9/11 has been our failure to develop a system for compelling our allies to cooperate in defeating radical Islamism.
    Qatar is currently the most visible example of a tiny country run like a medieval fiefdom using its oil and gas wealth to openly subsidize fanatics who want to destroy us. The Saudis are notorious for funding madrassas (Islamic schools) which produce terrorists.

    We have to be prepared to exert far more pressure on countries who are undermining the war against radical Islamism. Qatar is a sufficiently small country that its ruling dynasty should be informed that in the absence of policy changes, there will be a regime change. We do not have to helplessly wring our diplomatic hands while they fund those who would cut off our heads. Our Navy alone could persuade the Qataris in a day or two that an anti- Radical policy would be healthier.

    4. Sadly, this war with radical Islamism may go on for a long time. Politicians are already asking for an “exit strategy”. When you face enemies who want to cut off your heads and destroy your civilization, the only exit strategy is victory.

    We spent 46 years containing the Soviet Union until it collapsed. We may have to spend half of a century or more hunting down radicals, growing reliable self-governing allies, and convincing friends and neutrals to be anti-radical.

    Any politician's promise of a quick victory or a glib exit strategy is a fantasy and should be treated with contempt. We can grow prosperity, sustain freedom and live good lives while waging a relentless, unending campaign against radical Islamism but we will have to sustain that campaign for a long time.

    5. All this will require new resources, new programs, and potentially new institutions. We went through that process of programmatic and institutional invention in the early stages of the Cold War. We have to do so again. The failure to address the resource issue was the biggest sign President Obama and his team had not really thought through the war they were announcing.

    (Quoted from Newt Gingrich)

  8. #378
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Ah yes, as though the US hasn't divided the world in similar fashion.
    that is correct, we have not. Which is why I asked earlier if anyone could tell me about when the US invaded France for leaving NATO.

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by GBFAN View Post
    The five strategic failures in the speech are:
    Failing to define the global threat and a global strategy to defeat it
    Failing to define a positive goal
    Failing to explain how we are going to compel so-called allies to do what is necessary to defeat radical Islamism
    Failing to explain how hard and long and frustrating this war will be
    Failing to ask for the resources this kind of war will require
    If left uncorrected these five failures doom the President’s plan to failure.

    Let me explain each failure and why it must be fixed.

    1. Radical Islamism is not an Iraqi or Syrian problem. Radical Islamism has supporters, advocates, recruiters and sources of resources all across the planet.
    As we learned on September 11, 2001, it only takes a few people to do incredible damage. There are more than 10,000 terrorists from over 50 countries who have joined ISIS. Here in the United States, there are recruiters and supporters of ISIS.
    Well over 100 Americans have joined ISIS. Two Minnesotans have been killed in Syria. One of them had clearance to work on the runway of the Minneapolis Airport for a decade. We are lucky he decided to take his terrorist activities to Syria instead of to his day job.
    Radical Islamism includes Boko Haram in Nigeria, elements in Libya, Hamas in Gaza and dozens of groups around the world. President Obama failed to have any global strategy for a viral movement which requires analyzing the problem as an epidemic rather than as a problem between nation-states.

    Without a global strategy we will simply continue the 13-year pattern of failure and the radical Islamist movement will continue to grow.

    2. The worst moment of President Obama's speech was his suggestion that Somalia and Yemen were models of success that his anti-ISIS campaign could follow.
    Both Somalia and Yemen are disasters. Both are host to rampant terrorist activity. Somalia has virtually no government. Yemen has a very weak government which may not survive. If this is the Obama vision of success, it is a horrifying accumulation of human poverty, misery and violence which Americans should repudiate.
    The President is trapped because he is being forced into a fight he doesn't particularly want and he is determined to do as little as possible. That is a formula for imposing violence and destruction on a lot of innocent people who can't defend and protect themselves. America has to develop a positive strategy of growing reliable, self-governing allies. That requires confronting the reality that both anti-terrorism and counter-insurgency campaigns are inadequate models. We do not have the doctrine, the training or the tools today for that project.

    3. One of the great failures in the 13 years since 9/11 has been our failure to develop a system for compelling our allies to cooperate in defeating radical Islamism.
    Qatar is currently the most visible example of a tiny country run like a medieval fiefdom using its oil and gas wealth to openly subsidize fanatics who want to destroy us. The Saudis are notorious for funding madrassas (Islamic schools) which produce terrorists.

    We have to be prepared to exert far more pressure on countries who are undermining the war against radical Islamism. Qatar is a sufficiently small country that its ruling dynasty should be informed that in the absence of policy changes, there will be a regime change. We do not have to helplessly wring our diplomatic hands while they fund those who would cut off our heads. Our Navy alone could persuade the Qataris in a day or two that an anti- Radical policy would be healthier.

    4. Sadly, this war with radical Islamism may go on for a long time. Politicians are already asking for an “exit strategy”. When you face enemies who want to cut off your heads and destroy your civilization, the only exit strategy is victory.

    We spent 46 years containing the Soviet Union until it collapsed. We may have to spend half of a century or more hunting down radicals, growing reliable self-governing allies, and convincing friends and neutrals to be anti-radical.

    Any politician's promise of a quick victory or a glib exit strategy is a fantasy and should be treated with contempt. We can grow prosperity, sustain freedom and live good lives while waging a relentless, unending campaign against radical Islamism but we will have to sustain that campaign for a long time.

    5. All this will require new resources, new programs, and potentially new institutions. We went through that process of programmatic and institutional invention in the early stages of the Cold War. We have to do so again. The failure to address the resource issue was the biggest sign President Obama and his team had not really thought through the war they were announcing.

    (Quoted from Newt Gingrich)
    _______Newt Gingrich!!!!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  10. #380
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I'm saying that our ally at the time, the Soviet Union, lost far more, and suffered far more then we did, and that they learned some brutal lessons which caused them to rethink the security of their borders and the disposition of those states that lay upon it. And, that the very same thing is at play now with their justifiable concerns of NATO that has expanded six times to the east since its creation!
    poland was cut in half in 1939 and was occupied for 40 years. is their nationhood expendable?

    same issue with the czech republic. same issue with the baltic states. same issue with hungary. same issue with romania.

    do they have no say in whether they deserve self governence?
    "If you can't stand the way this place is, Take yourself to higher places!"
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