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Thread: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

  1. #351
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    So, the Soviets were all for nuclear disarmament before they had nukes themselves?

    That's not too surprising, now is it?

    And, had the US destroyed its nukes, could we have trusted the Soviet Union not to have made their own? Oh, right, the phrase "trusted the Soviet Union" says it all.
    Sure, Ditto. I suppose one could argue the reverse then.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  2. #352
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    The Cold War was essentially an arms race, the assurance of MAD, and multiple proxy wars. You may wish to include Berlin, but that's pretty much not related to the Cold War and arms race.


    The first heightening of Cold War tensions occurred in 1948 when the Soviets imposed a partial blockade of Berlin in April, and then a full blockade in June...

    Coming just three years after the end of World War II, the blockade was the first major clash of the Cold War...

    It takes an interesting mentality to be able to twist through enough hoops to come to the conclusion that Soviet adherence to Communist Doctrine was part of their effort to prop up the US Defense Industry.

  3. #353
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post


    The first heightening of Cold War tensions occurred in 1948 when the Soviets imposed a partial blockade of Berlin in April, and then a full blockade in June...

    Coming just three years after the end of World War II, the blockade was the first major clash of the Cold War...

    It takes an interesting mentality to be able to twist through enough hoops to come to the conclusion that Soviet adherence to Communist Doctrine was part of their effort to prop up the US Defense Industry.
    Excuse me, but I never made that claim. And you are wrong about the first heightening of Cold War tensions. That came two years BEFORE the Berlin blockade at the first UN assembly when the US REJECTED the soviet unions proposal of nuclear disarmament!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  4. #354
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Excuse me, but I never made that claim. And you are wrong about the first heightening of Cold War tensions. That came two years BEFORE the Berlin blockade at the first UN assembly when the US REJECTED the soviet unions proposal of nuclear disarmament!
    Wait. The USSR demanded that we unilaterally disarm, while they continued to build their program, and we declined?!? Color me shocked!?!

    Because, when we proposed that not only should we unilaterally give up nuclear arms, but that all Atomic energy should be placed under the guidance of the UN and that everyone be inspected to make sure they weren't creating any atomic weapons in secret, the Soviet Union rejected the proposal.

    That proposal was in June 1946. You know what else happened about then?


    ...In 1946, the Soviets cut off food shipments from their zone into western Germany. This was problematic as eastern Germany produced the majority of the nation's food while western Germany contained its industry. In reply, General Lucius Clay, commander of the American zone, ended shipments of industrial equipment to the Soviets. Angered, the Soviets launched an anti-American campaign and began to disrupt the work of the ACC. In Berlin, the citizens, who had been brutally treated by the Soviets in the closing months of the war, voiced their disapproval by electing a staunchly anti-communist city-wide government....

  5. #355
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    What are your thoughts on the Presidents speech about ISIS?
    I think it was tinged with the usual narcissism and half truths. I wanted to laugh when he suggested that "If you go after Americans, there is no place for you to hide.". Terrorists killed our ambassador in Libya and three other Americans and it took two years for the capture of just one of the terrorists. And his administration only went after that one because of all of the uproar over the scandal. And he is still attempting to blame Bush.

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    I was impressed that he figures we'll be as successful in Iraq as we have been in Somalia and Yemen.

    In short, it sounds like he's doing pretty much exactly what Bush had planned 6 years ago even though he ****canned that plan back then when it might have prevented a lot of this crap.
    I agree. This criticism is not just aimed at Obama. This nation does need to go back to "declaring war" when it commits troops and giving the troops a clear objective. We also need to leave contingents of troops behind long enough for peace to take hold regardless of SOFA agreements. And we need to stop limiting rules of engagement on the battlefield during negotiations.

  7. #357
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    I agree. This criticism is not just aimed at Obama. This nation does need to go back to "declaring war" when it commits troops and giving the troops a clear objective. We also need to leave contingents of troops behind long enough for peace to take hold regardless of SOFA agreements. And we need to stop limiting rules of engagement on the battlefield during negotiations.
    The problem, as i see it, is that we have separated the declaration of war from being a conflict between the US (and perhaps allies defined by treaty/mutual agreement) and a defined nation (or group of nations) as the enemy to being a war on "crime" (currently mostly terrorism and drugs) wherever in the world it may be deemed to exist. War is not an excuse to engage in a global police action and our military should not become a global police force.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Wait. The USSR demanded that we unilaterally disarm, while they continued to build their program, and we declined?!? Color me shocked!?!

    Because, when we proposed that not only should we unilaterally give up nuclear arms, but that all Atomic energy should be placed under the guidance of the UN and that everyone be inspected to make sure they weren't creating any atomic weapons in secret, the Soviet Union rejected the proposal.

    That proposal was in June 1946. You know what else happened about then?


    ...In 1946, the Soviets cut off food shipments from their zone into western Germany. This was problematic as eastern Germany produced the majority of the nation's food while western Germany contained its industry. In reply, General Lucius Clay, commander of the American zone, ended shipments of industrial equipment to the Soviets. Angered, the Soviets launched an anti-American campaign and began to disrupt the work of the ACC. In Berlin, the citizens, who had been brutally treated by the Soviets in the closing months of the war, voiced their disapproval by electing a staunchly anti-communist city-wide government....
    You've already been corrected on this.

    During the United Nation's first General Assembly in London in January 1946, they discussed the future of Nuclear Weapons and created the United Nations Atomic Energy Commission. The goal of this assembly was to eliminate the use of all Nuclear weapons. The United States presented their solution, which was called the Baruch Plan.[9] This plan proposed that there should be an international authority that controls all dangerous atomic activities. The Soviet Union disagreed with this proposal and rejected it. The Soviets' proposal involved universal nuclear disarmament.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  9. #359
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Wait. The USSR demanded that we unilaterally disarm, while they continued to build their program, and we declined?!? Color me shocked!?!

    Because, when we proposed that not only should we unilaterally give up nuclear arms, but that all Atomic energy should be placed under the guidance of the UN and that everyone be inspected to make sure they weren't creating any atomic weapons in secret, the Soviet Union rejected the proposal.

    That proposal was in June 1946. You know what else happened about then?


    ...In 1946, the Soviets cut off food shipments from their zone into western Germany. This was problematic as eastern Germany produced the majority of the nation's food while western Germany contained its industry. In reply, General Lucius Clay, commander of the American zone, ended shipments of industrial equipment to the Soviets. Angered, the Soviets launched an anti-American campaign and began to disrupt the work of the ACC. In Berlin, the citizens, who had been brutally treated by the Soviets in the closing months of the war, voiced their disapproval by electing a staunchly anti-communist city-wide government....
    You've already been corrected on this.

    During the United Nation's first General Assembly in London in January 1946, they discussed the future of Nuclear Weapons and created the United Nations Atomic Energy Commission. The goal of this assembly was to eliminate the use of all Nuclear weapons. The United States presented their solution, which was called the Baruch Plan.[9] This plan proposed that there should be an international authority that controls all dangerous atomic activities. The Soviet Union disagreed with this proposal and rejected it. The Soviets' proposal involved universal nuclear disarmament.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  10. #360
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    I agree. This criticism is not just aimed at Obama. This nation does need to go back to "declaring war" when it commits troops and giving the troops a clear objective. We also need to leave contingents of troops behind long enough for peace to take hold regardless of SOFA agreements. And we need to stop limiting rules of engagement on the battlefield during negotiations.
    Or.......................just stop instigating hostilities to begin with and become the arbiters of peace, novel I know, and you'll naturally twist your warmongering meme to suggest we aren't the aggressors in the ME, I'm sure.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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