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Thread: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

  1. #261
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I get it, but the assassination of foreign leaders is hardly a military objective. Allowing the same morons in charge to replace one tyrant/general with another is not exactly a superior battle plan.
    But we've been doing that for a long time and never learning our lesson. We depose democratically elected regimes to replace them with our own dictators because they promise to do our bidding, then we have to go in and depose them when they decide they don't want to be our puppets. How many times have we had to do that and we never learn?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I get it, but the assassination of foreign leaders is hardly a military objective. Allowing the same morons in charge to replace one tyrant/general with another is not exactly a superior battle plan.
    What's the alternative? Fight others' wars for them? Push them out of the battle they want to contribute to? Marginalize what they want of their own government while we put in one of our choosing? That'll never stick. We've already seen the Afghanistan and Iraq governments quickly stumble. A people will never appreciate freedom they, themselves, didn't fight for. They won't have the motivation to fight and die to preserve it.

    Would the United States be what it is today if the French didn't leave the colonies after helping push the British out? What would have happened if they'd insisted on helping us build out government, write our Constitution for us?

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thom Paine View Post
    More grist.

    Apparently O's coalition is coming together as stated and planned .... ????? Ohhhhh, I guess not; The overall ineptitude, and outright political BS, of this administration is astonishing !

    .... the world is a stage and we are but actors........ ( could be the mantra for O and cohorts )

    Obama's Iraq strategy unraveling | RedState

    Thom Paine

    Heya Thom. I had the Brits and Germans up with what they said. DS brought in what the Russians had say. So now Turkey will allow the use of a base and just send in humanitarian aid. Nothing on shutting down that Smugglers Route.....huh?

    Plus, I am sure they will allow the MB back Rebels refuge and to allow them to attack coming out of Turkey again.

  4. #264
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Today, the U.S. obtained a limited commitment of support from 10 Arab states. The communique signed by the Gulf Cooperation Council States, the U.S., Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, and Lebanon was as follows:

    The ministers representing states of the Gulf Cooperation Council, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and the United States declared their shared commitment to stand united against the threat posed by all terrorism, including the so-called Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), to the region and the world.

    The participants hailed the formation of the new, inclusive Iraqi Government and expressed their support for the immediate steps it has pledged to take to advance the interests of all Iraq’s citizens, regardless of religion, sect or ethnicity.

    The participants resolved to strengthen their support for the new Iraqi Government in its efforts to unite all Iraqis in combatting ISIL and discussed a strategy to destroy ISIL wherever it is, including in both Iraq and Syria.

    The participants confirmed their commitment to implement UN Security Council Resolution 2170, and noted the Arab League Resolution 7804 of September 7, 2014, as well as the discussion of ISIL at the NATO Summit in Wales. The Ministers affirmed their strong commitment to continue the effort to eliminate global terrorism.

    The participating states agreed to do their share in the comprehensive fight against ISIL, including: stopping the flow of foreign fighters through neighboring countries, countering financing of ISIL and other violent extremists, repudiating their hateful ideology, ending impunity and bringing perpetrators to justice, contributing to humanitarian relief efforts, assisting with the reconstruction and rehabilitation of communities brutalized by ISIL, supporting states that face the most acute ISIL threat, and, as appropriate, joining in the many aspects of a coordinated military campaign against ISIL.

    Participants emphasized that the role played by regional states is central to this effort.


    Jeddah Communique

    On close inspection, there is no, repeat, no binding commitment of military support. The statement reads, "The participating states agreed to do their share in the comprehensive fight against ISIL... and, as appropriate, joining in the many aspects of a coordinated military campaign against ISIL." Notice the qualifying language, "as appropriate." In other words, aside from Iraq, which is already involved in the fight against ISIS on its territory, there is nothing that makes military contributions from the other Arab states automatic. In stark contrast, when the U.S. organized the Persian Gulf War effort after Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, the U.S. obtained firm military commitments from numerous Arab states. Given their much larger interests in the fight against ISIS, the U.S. should have lined up such military contributions. In the end, the Arab states committed to some degree of support short of binding military commitments so as not to isolate the U.S. Given that the U.S. already declared that it had put together a "broad coalition," the Arab states had strong leverage to limit their role, because the U.S. needed their sign-on.

    Finally, NATO member Turkey did not sign onto even the limited communique. Even as it enjoys Article V protection from NATO should ISIS attack it--maybe because it enjoys such protection--Turkey did not even embrace the limited commitments contained in the communique. That situation speaks clearly of a continuing erosion in the bilateral U.S.-Turkey relationship even as both sides will likely downplay that deterioration.

  5. #265
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Mittner View Post
    What's the alternative? Fight others' wars for them? Push them out of the battle they want to contribute to? Marginalize what they want of their own government while we put in one of our choosing? That'll never stick. We've already seen the Afghanistan and Iraq governments quickly stumble. A people will never appreciate freedom they, themselves, didn't fight for. They won't have the motivation to fight and die to preserve it.

    Would the United States be what it is today if the French didn't leave the colonies after helping push the British out? What would have happened if they'd insisted on helping us build out government, write our Constitution for us?
    Allow the current dictator/king/leader to do as they please, except for harming us directly, and support their existing enemies if they get too far out of line. Most of the ME nations are not allowing freedom (e.g. Saudi Arabia and Egypt) yet we let them be (or actually support them) so long as we are not directly threatened by them.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by GBFAN View Post
    That's misleading, though ... as of 10 Sept, we have launched a total of 143 air strikes against ISIS, most of them against logistics sites and forward attacking troops, and virtually none against command and control targets.

    In the Gulf War, we launched over 100,000 air sorties over 36 days - an average of about 2,700 per day.

    Either do it ... or get the hell out.
    And even after all that, the ME burns, and the militant Islamic groups are stronger then ever.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Serious question--based on your intensive studying of the area and troop location for all the actors--
    is it conceivable for the Kurds, Iraqis and others to drive through or split ISIL forces above or below the Iraqi/Syrian border?
    my thinking is along the "left hooks" thrown by Schwartzkoff and MacArthur .

    Not Right at the moment.....maybe if the Kurds get some weapons. Plus if the Iraqis win some encounters and gain more confidence.

    ISIL is kind of split with their area of Operations they control now.....that's in Iraq.

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Today, the U.S. obtained a limited commitment of support from 10 Arab states. The communique signed by the Gulf Cooperation Council States, the U.S., Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, and Lebanon was as follows:

    The ministers representing states of the Gulf Cooperation Council, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and the United States declared their shared commitment to stand united against the threat posed by all terrorism, including the so-called Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), to the region and the world.

    The participants hailed the formation of the new, inclusive Iraqi Government and expressed their support for the immediate steps it has pledged to take to advance the interests of all Iraq’s citizens, regardless of religion, sect or ethnicity.

    The participants resolved to strengthen their support for the new Iraqi Government in its efforts to unite all Iraqis in combatting ISIL and discussed a strategy to destroy ISIL wherever it is, including in both Iraq and Syria.

    The participants confirmed their commitment to implement UN Security Council Resolution 2170, and noted the Arab League Resolution 7804 of September 7, 2014, as well as the discussion of ISIL at the NATO Summit in Wales. The Ministers affirmed their strong commitment to continue the effort to eliminate global terrorism.

    The participating states agreed to do their share in the comprehensive fight against ISIL, including: stopping the flow of foreign fighters through neighboring countries, countering financing of ISIL and other violent extremists, repudiating their hateful ideology, ending impunity and bringing perpetrators to justice, contributing to humanitarian relief efforts, assisting with the reconstruction and rehabilitation of communities brutalized by ISIL, supporting states that face the most acute ISIL threat, and, as appropriate, joining in the many aspects of a coordinated military campaign against ISIL.

    Participants emphasized that the role played by regional states is central to this effort.


    Jeddah Communique

    On close inspection, there is no, repeat, no binding commitment of military support. The statement reads, "The participating states agreed to do their share in the comprehensive fight against ISIL... and, as appropriate, joining in the many aspects of a coordinated military campaign against ISIL." Notice the qualifying language, "as appropriate." In other words, aside from Iraq, which is already involved in the fight against ISIS on its territory, there is nothing that makes military contributions from the other Arab states automatic. In stark contrast, when the U.S. organized the Persian Gulf War effort after Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, the U.S. obtained firm military commitments from numerous Arab states. Given their much larger interests in the fight against ISIS, the U.S. should have lined up such military contributions. In the end, the Arab states committed to some degree of support short of binding military commitments so as not to isolate the U.S. Given that the U.S. already declared that it had put together a "broad coalition," the Arab states had strong leverage to limit their role, because the U.S. needed their sign-on.

    Finally, NATO member Turkey did not sign onto even the limited communique. Even as it enjoys Article V protection from NATO should ISIS attack it--maybe because it enjoys such protection--Turkey did not even embrace the limited commitments contained in the communique. That situation speaks clearly of a continuing erosion in the bilateral U.S.-Turkey relationship even as both sides will likely downplay that deterioration.

    Yeah DS I just seen this.....no binding military action and no wording with troops on the ground, in Syria. I am sure they will want to back the MB Rebels as much as they can. That's all they are looking at.

    Wonder if BO will say anything to Qatar. We need to tell them to quit arming Terrorists. If they don't stop....that we will be willing to replace them with a big hole in the ground.

    You already know they are spreading to Asia.....plus I heard that the Invisible Sheik gave approval to Boko Haram and expects allegiance from them.

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Bush handed Iraq on a silver platter to a terrorist and Iranian sympathizer and then signed an agreement with him to leave in 2011. Is that what you call victory? Is that what 60,000 Americans were killed or maimed for?
    It's what BHO and Biden called a victory.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    And a certain person in the GOP tried to sell arms to them, along with al Qaeda, to fight ASSad.
    Smooth move there huh?

    I'm surprised folks aren't focusing on and discussing Mr. Obama's pledge to arm and train Kurds and Iraqis .
    False post.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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