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Thread: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

  1. #251
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    No not necesasary, they know that air strikes work...

    That's why this ramp up and the hype...he's been bombing since August...and they're working so well he needs more

    That's misleading, though ... as of 10 Sept, we have launched a total of 143 air strikes against ISIS, most of them against logistics sites and forward attacking troops, and virtually none against command and control targets.

    In the Gulf War, we launched over 100,000 air sorties over 36 days - an average of about 2,700 per day.

    Either do it ... or get the hell out.

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya Ttwtt Well you see he wants money to fund the MB backed rebels.....I don't think we should have to up the money. Even the rebels own commanders were saying its a little to late. Aleppo is falling and that's their last bastion of hope.
    I seriously doubt that the US will have any difficulty in finding groups willing to fight for "the cause" in exchange for financial support or that claim to need better weapons.
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    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by GBFAN View Post
    That's misleading, though ... as of 10 Sept, we have launched a total of 143 air strikes against ISIS, most of them against logistics sites and forward attacking troops, and virtually none against command and control targets.

    In the Gulf War, we launched over 100,000 air sorties over 36 days - an average of about 2,700 per day.

    Either do it ... or get the hell out.


    It's the same point, you're just arguing for more.

    The truth is they have not been successful in regime change, and that is how this need to be seen. ISIL controls an area larger than Maryland. You can bomb the **** out of it and have nothing left, but the ten million people who live there won't be your allies, at least not the living ones.

    These are core issues posted twice in this thread. Please have a look...going over and over the same baseless argument is boring
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    Libya was a success?
    The military campaign was, absolutely. The mission objectives were achieved with minimal expense and no American lives lost.

    What ever happened to those terrorists who assassinated the only sitting ambassador to die in office in 30 years?
    The guy left his escort and ran into a burning building to be killed by smoke. Stop being so dramatic.
    But anyway, one of the suspected ringleaders was recently caught, again by the use of intelligence and surgical operations.

    I guess al-Qaeda just left of their own accord then?
    It's a logical fallacy to assume that a full scale invasion was the only way to chase al-Qaeda out. In fact, leveraging intelligence and surgical strikes as we recently have, who knows- maybe we'd have been able to capture or kill Bin Laden much sooner if not distracted fighting the whole of the Taliban and trying to rebuild a new government there.

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Mittner View Post
    Now you're just using petty partisan spin.

    Whether the repercussions have panned out as desired, you can't really argue that our mission in Libya, and our attacks in other nations have been largely successful and cost-effective. And with Libya we achieved the same thing we achieved in Iraq (the toppling of a regime) for less than 1/1000th the cost in money, and no American deaths.

    This is the right way to leverage our military forces against less technological advanced nations. It's an embarrassment that we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan as we did. That was mid-20th century war mentality and it put our soldiers in unnecessary danger and cost us far, far more than the objectives warranted. And for all that money and all those American lives lost, we didn't even finish al Qaeda and Bin Laden in Afghanistan; intel and surgical strikes finished him off.
    Not so - in Iraq we had bases from which to operate and a direct say over who was trained, armed and funded; which is not to say that we actually did that well. Simply knocking off the leadership of nations, or factions within them, only creates a vacuum to be filled by the next strongest wanting (and able) to act. That is not the same thing as having a say (backed by a military presence) in who gets the next shot to take power. Bin Laden and his merry men simply rented space in Afghanistan, as they did in Pakistan and other countries with "tribal zones", while ISIS appears to be powerful enough to simply take these lands (and other spoils of war) by force.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 09-11-14 at 04:59 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    It's the same point, you're just arguing for more.

    The truth is they have not been successful in regime change, and that is how this need to be seen. ISIL controls an area larger than Maryland. You can bomb the **** out of it and have nothing left, but the ten million people who live there won't be your allies, at least not the living ones.

    These are core issues posted twice in this thread. Please have a look...going over and over the same baseless argument is boring
    Actually, my point is something different ... we are repeating the errors of history. We never fought the VN war to win ... a lot of good people died because we didn't make an honest commitment to victory. The same applies to Iraq and Afghanistan. In all three wars, we allowed politicians to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

    Either commit the resources necessary to get the job done in the most efficient manner, or just get the hell out. It doesn't make any sense to waste lives just for political posturing.

    Now, as to your comments .. we WERE successful in regime change in Iraq. Saddam is gone, and the Iraqi people selected the government they wanted. That was our goal. Was it the government we would have picked? Of course not ... but we had a responsibility to support the will of the Iraqi people. Was the government strong enough to survive on its own? Clearly not ... but we left anyway. We allowed cheap political theatrics to override the best advice of the people on the ground. We quit on the Iraqi people ... plain and simple. We ought to be ashamed. We snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
    Last edited by GBFAN; 09-11-14 at 05:00 PM.

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya Ttwtt Well you see he wants money to fund the MB backed rebels.....I don't think we should have to up the money. Even the rebels own commanders were saying its a little to late. Aleppo is falling and that's their last bastion of hope.

    More grist.

    Apparently O's coalition is coming together as stated and planned .... ????? Ohhhhh, I guess not; The overall ineptitude, and outright political BS, of this administration is astonishing !



    .... the world is a stage and we are but actors........ ( could be the mantra for O and cohorts )

    A government official said Ankara can open the Incirlik Air Base in the south only for logistical and humanitarian operations, and not for any airstrikes.

    “Turkey will not be involved in any armed operation but will entirely concentrate on humanitarian operations,” media outlets quoted the unnamed official as saying.
    “Britain will not be taking part in any airstrikes in Syria,” Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond said in Berlin. He said London won’t be “revisiting” the issue after Parliament decided last year against participating in airstrikes.

    Germany has decided to arm Kurdish forces fighting extremists, putting aside its usual reluctance to send weapons into conflicts. Asked about participating in airstrikes, German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said: “We have neither been asked to do that, nor will we do that.”

    Obama's Iraq strategy unraveling | RedState

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Not so - in Iraq we had bases from which to operate and a direct say over who was trained, armed and funded. Simply knocking off the leadership of nations, or factions within them, only creates a vacuum to be filled by the next strongest wanting (and able) to act. That is not the same thing as having a say (backed by a military presence) in who gets the next shot to take power. Bin Laden and his merry men simply rented space in Afghanistan, as they did in Pakistan and other countries with "tribal zones", while ISIS appears to be powerful enough to simply take these lands (and other spoils of war) by force.
    I'm talking military objectives. Not the subsequent nation building which I'm largely against.

    Why's nobody getting this...

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Serious question--based on your intensive studying of the area and troop location for all the actors--
    is it conceivable for the Kurds, Iraqis and others to drive through or split ISIL forces above or below the Iraqi/Syrian border?
    my thinking is along the "left hooks" thrown by Schwartzkoff and MacArthur .
    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Mittner View Post
    I'm talking military objectives. Not the subsequent nation building which I'm largely against.

    Why's nobody getting this...
    I get it, but the assassination of foreign leaders is hardly a military objective. Allowing the same morons in charge to replace one tyrant/general with another is not exactly a superior battle plan.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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