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Thread: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

  1. #201
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Um... no? Al Qaeda is still alive and well.
    Pretty sure he was being facetious, but we'll wait for him to be sure.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Hello Polgara, true enough, but then it's not that we're just there to interfere in feuds between the Sunni and the Shia.


    Chuck Hagel, 2007
    People say we're not fighting for oil. Of course we are. They talk about America's national interest. What the hell do you think they're talking about? We're not there for figs.
    True that! So why is it being called a religious war? Easier to justify the killings that way?

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Interesting response from some of the left:



    The Baghdad Bureau Chief for the NY Times also pretty much admitted that the President had ignored the collapse of Iraq and growth of ISIL for political reasons.
    There it is.....all of MSDNC slamming this speech by BO. How did that happen? Why are they dumping on BO? Richard Engel called it Right with Yemen. So to did Don Sutherland.

    Yeah that bit about BO saying ISIL wasn't Islamic.....went over real well.

  4. #204
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    "Annexing" "countries", lol. Exaggerate much. You still don't understand where Russia and China are in regards to US interference and regime change in the ME. Their articulated positions at the UN have missed you somehow.
    I know they both signed on to Resolution 1501 if that's what you are referring to. And yes, when you move troops into a country, and force them into a vote with no monitors whatsoever, I do call that annexing what Russia did with Crimea, because that's what it was. Ultimately, that's the difference between the US and China and Russia. If we do go into a country, we don't go in there with designs of taking it over for ourselves. Have we forgotten about Tibet? Georgia?

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    I love how you assume things and then think that makes them facts. Obama certainly knew that the allies would not participate in Syria. He doesn't care. Just like with Bin Laden.
    Which isn't cool. He lost me as candidate Obama when he announced in June/July of 08 that he would attack al Qaeda in Pakistan, with or without the Pakistani's permission. Don't remember that being Bush's reason for not doing it himself, but if it was, good for him.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  6. #206
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Um... no? Al Qaeda is still alive and well.
    yeah, that was kind of my point....

    Please keep up
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
    Donald Trump, 11/23/17

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    I know they both signed on to Resolution 1501 if that's what you are referring to. And yes, when you move troops into a country, and force them into a vote with no monitors whatsoever, I do call that annexing what Russia did with Crimea, because that's what it was. Ultimately, that's the difference between the US and China and Russia. If we do go into a country, we don't go in there with designs of taking it over for ourselves. Have we forgotten about Tibet? Georgia?
    Reminds me of the treaty of Hidalgo. Btw, imperialism can include annexation of territory, but isn't necessary. US has a history of imperialism.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I didn't say anything about their numbers being too few to do whatever it is they're going to do either. Try again. Will they be in more danger because of their small numbers? Well, there will be 475 of them against an estimated 27,000+ ISIS fighters in Iraq and who knows how many other fighters with other terrorist groups? How effective has the Iraqi military been in keeping these people from seizing major portion of Iraq? How much do you trust the Iraqi government to put themselves at risk to protect and defend our 475 people?
    So.... in one paragraph you say you're not talking about their numbers in relation to the enemy, but then you do exactly that. They won't be 475 against 27,000+. That's my point. You're criticizing their minimal numbers based on a fictitious scenario.

    The people being kidnapped, tortured, beheaded, and blown up are almost never in direct conflict or combat or contact with the terrorists. But they are just as dead.
    So they're being kidnapped, tortured, and beheaded by.... what exactly? Those things kind of require there to be in direct conflict or combat or contact.
    In theory they could be blown up from a distance if ISIS is shooting RPGs or missiles, but I believe common convention would still consider that to be "direct conflict".

  9. #209
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?
    i thought about this overnight before posting about it, because i was angry and disappointed. i still am. i almost didn't post this, because i have friends on this site who support intervention. i accept that this is a valid opposing view, i understand their reasoning, and i consider their motivations to be noble. additionally, i deeply respect and am grateful to those who have served. that being said, here is my position and what i thought of the speech.

    i don't support the war. i'm not sure that there is non-regional military solution to this problem. whenever we kill one of these sick bastards, something worse pops up. we put regimes in place, they are toppled, and then replaced by something horrifying. we considered going after Assad, then this ISIL bull**** happens, and now we are actually going to be helping him. Osama Bin Laden is captured, and now we have new and ruthlessly violent terrorist organizations to fight. enough is enough. this is one big game of whack a mole. we have been at war almost my entire adult life, and problems in the region are still prevalent and even expanding.

    the only solution i see is to unplug the whack a mole machine. we do that by replacing oil with something else, which will put a serious dent in their money supply. reform in that region is going to have to come from within, and Saudi Arabia is going to have to step up and fulfill its role as regional hegemon. it can no longer be allowed to abdicate.

    as for his speech in particular, when he invoked the September eleventh attacks, i almost threw the remote at the TV. i found it to be an appeal to emotion on the eve of the thirteenth anniversary of those attacks, and it always gets under my skin when a politician uses that as a tool.

    as for part of what he's proposing, it has been done already. here is one example :

    Operation Cyclone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    while we may or may not have financed or trained him personally, Bin Laden was part of the Mujahideen. and i'm supposed to believe the solution to this is more funding and training? seriously?

    to add insult to injury, these bastards will be fighting us with our own weapons that we gave to the Iraqis, another example of the fruits of training and arming sectors of the country that we consider to be friendly. not to mention, if things need to be done, when will the rest of the world lead the charge? it can't always be the US. that isn't fair. i dislike these bastard asshole terrorist ****heads probably as much as any of you, but this probably won't work.

    finally, i get the feeling that a lot of Obama's motivation is to appear to be doing something. i doubt anyone honestly thinks that this will solve the problem, and if it does work, it will likely lead to escalation and prolonged involvement. these wars are never short. and then in many years when we finally do withdraw, there's a good chance that another group of these snakes move in to fill the power void.

    there is just no good side to take. either way we go, it's just an awful situation. we need to cut off their funding in every way possible, especially by eliminating oil as the premier transportation fuel. then we need to tell Saudi Arabia to handle this situation like we would have to if it was Mexico. Saudi Arabia has not lifted a finger to help us with the horrifyingly brutal Mexican drug gangs who roam our southern border. ****, they don't even pay for the gas for us to chase them around with. and now, they allow their own neighborhood to get so ****ed up that the world has had to go there again and again, decade after decade. this is their neighborhood, and they need to eliminate this particular cancer from it and make it clear that from now on, instability like this is going to result in them getting involved in a big way.
    Last edited by Helix; 09-11-14 at 03:08 PM.

  10. #210
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Which isn't cool. He lost me as candidate Obama when he announced in June/July of 08 that he would attack al Qaeda in Pakistan, with or without the Pakistani's permission. Don't remember that being Bush's reason for not doing it himself, but if it was, good for him.
    So you think ISIS should be given safe haven in Syria?

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