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Thread: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

  1. #151
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya HB. Well you see Right away its back to Bush and him leaving a SOFA for BO to handle.....which BO couldn't handle that fact due to BO's own mentality about Iraq and what he thought was his Great Achievement. He was wrong. Then he ran from the problem.....thinking if he ignored it. It would go away.

    Those powerful Sunni Tribes and Ousted Baathists would have never sided with the Terrorists. If BO peep would have just did his job in Iraq.....rather than trying to bask in his own glory. Thinking he had Iraq and Afghanistan, Right. What he really did was play on the American people being war weary. Now he looks like a fool all across that Global Stage.



    Throughout 2014, powerful Sunni tribes and ousted Saddam-era Baathists have coordinated with ISIS to capture much of central, western, and northern Iraq. On the other side are demoralized Iraqi troops and increasingly sectarian Iranian-trained militias, some of which had been fighting in Syria. The U.S. didn't truly tune into the crisis until after a few hundred ISIS militants overran Iraq's second-largest city of Mosul on June 10. "There was a concerted effort by the administration to not acknowledge the obvious until it became so apparent — with the fall of Mosul — that Iraq was collapsing," The New York Times' Arango said on Reddit.

    "Obama was hugely (and understandably) reluctant to authorize the use of force in Iraq — he considered ending the war there one of his chief accomplishments as president," geopolitical expert Ian Bremmer, the president of Eurasia Group, told Business Insider recently. "But there wasn't much choice,
    as ISIS forces proved far more capable than U.S. intelligence had assessed,
    " he said.....snip~

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/theres...145400925.html
    We lost all meaningful intelligence in the area with our ill-advised withdrawal. It's no surprise our intelligence is lagging behind events, and this "late to the party" approach has been repeated by Obama time after time. Now we're going to arm the moderates? He has to be kidding. Where in the hell was he 3 years ago, when that very thing might have made a difference? Now we're more than likely going to end up supplying arms to our enemies, one way or the other. I'm glad he's doing something, but damn what a bonehead he is.

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Mr. Obama pledged 475 more boots tonite.
    I guess one guy has only one leg.

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Al Qaeda attacked the U.S. on 9/11/2001 on American soil. Al Qaeda did not pose merely a theoretical threat.
    And before that the US was attacked in 1993.

  4. #154
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Is ISIL a direct threat to the US?
    (The speech basically said 'no')

    Why are we declaring war if it isn't?

    We are now on Iran's side, sorta. I'm just wondering when the official announcement will be when we find we are at war with Europa and at peace with Oceana, or vice versa.
    If a person threatens to kill the President, they are investigated.

    If they are found to have a plan and the means they are arrested.

    That is what is happening here.

    The US should not wait for the attack that this group said is coming. The US needs to stop it before it happens.

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The terrorist organization has been known by various names ISIS, ISIL, and now IS. I don't think the references to ISIL materially change the President's approach.

    There are similarities to Yemen e.g., drone and other air strikes. The big difference is that Yemen has a reasonably cooperative government. The U.S. is estranged from Syria's government. Syria is also in the midst of a larger sectarian conflict. Syria is vastly more complicated than Yemen is. Yemen, of course, is much more a work in progress than a success at this point in time.

    Finally, subsequent reporting has revealed that the U.S. is still trying to "broaden" the coalition by bringing the Gulf States, Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, and Turkey on board. I'm really taken aback that this was not already done. It should have been done much earlier. Indeed, after Iraq invaded Kuwait, President Bush had put together an Arab coalition in 7-10 days.

    It takes direct Presidential effort to do so. Bush recounted in his and Brent Scowcroft's A World Transformed (Alfred A. Knopf, 1998) with respect to August 7, 1990, "Throughout the rest of the day I worked the phones with our Arab allies, now reaching the other Gulf States." He added, "We were also gathering commitments from teh Western allies."

    Of August 11, Bush noted:

    I called Mubarak at 5:30 in the morning...and thanked him for his help. Hosni said that everyone understood we had pushed diplomacy, and that it was making a difference in building Arab support... Egyptian and Moroccan troops began to arrive in Saudi Arabia that same day, and with them stark evidence for Saddam that the Arab world too would stand up to him.

    That the U.S. had not created such a coalition right now and has not even defined roles for the coalition partners is astonishing. However, given how reactive and ad hoc American foreign policy has become in recent years, I'm not surprised that the kind of strategic thinking and execution required to put together a broad and effective coalition has not already occurred.

    Finally, Bush also revealed the benefits of having paid attention to prospective partners even before the Iraqi invasion observing:

    The year before, Mubarak had offered me some advice: touch base with these small countries whenever you can, just to acknowledge their importance to the United States, and it will make a difference with them. I had, and my wise friend Hosni had been absolutely right. We were now seeing some of the fruits of tending to these relationships.

    Priorities and building/sustaining relationships matter. The President prioritized in rapidly putting together an Arab coalition and he was intensely and personally involved in doing so, rather than outsourcing most or all of his efforts to others. Of course, his Secretary of State and Secretary of Defense were also heavily involved. At the same time, he carefully managed relationships and those efforts paid off.

    On a larger point, building and managing relationships is why Presidents such as Reagan, Clinton, and Bush (Sr.) were able to accomplish as much as they did even with the Opposition controlling one or both branches of Congress. One cannot understate the importance of investing time and effort in building and leveraging relationships with the people whose support can be crucial.


    Sure it does DS.....if he is afraid to acknowledge what is a fact. Finds it detestable and so horrible. He starts from a Defaulted pre-judged position.

    You are correct that Bush put a coalition together in matter of days. It is clear BO cannot even do so with a little over a month. Note what most of the left says about the SOFA......that would be the left here at DP. As several others know the real truth to that issue.

    Yes that cooperative government in Yemen put boots on the ground while we drone and Airstrike AQ. We are now over a decade on the Invisible war. Which has worsened under BO's terms in Office. Work in progress where BO rarely makes that effort to Engage the Yemen Leadership.....himself.

    BO should have been working the phones this whole year keeping our allies from feeling the unease or from feeling the US cannot be trusted.

    But then all have said the Issue would be Syria. Thinking the Rebels can be those troops on the ground is ludicrous. The start of a 3 pronged attack.....is what was reported. Yet they know just going into Syria will not end ISIL in 3 years.


    "The U.S. and the West have avoided the Syrian conflict for two years, essentially permitting the conditions that spawned ISIS," said Clint Watts, counterterrorism expert at the Foreign Policy Institute. The Obama administration's nominal partner on the ground in Syria is the Free Syrian Army, which Obama has repeatedly disregarded as "an opposition made up of former doctors, farmers, pharmacists, and so forth."

    The rub is that Obama decided in 2013 that the U.S. wouldn't “get in the middle of somebody else's civil war," and the White House only allowed the CIA to "provide enough support to help ensure that politically moderate, U.S.-supported militias don’t lose but not enough for them to win." "The leadership of the FSA is American," a veteran FSA officer who defected from the Syrian army two years ago and won respect for leading rebel forces in southern Syria told McClatchy recently. "The Americans are completely marginalizing the military staff." To defeat ISIS, the U.S. commander in chief will have to eventually confront the Assad regime — a move that would strain tensions with an increasingly assertive Iran.....snip~

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/theres...145400925.html

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    The rub is that Obama decided in 2013 that the U.S. wouldn't “get in the middle of somebody else's civil war," and the White House only allowed the CIA to "provide enough support to help ensure that politically moderate, U.S.-supported militias don’t lose but not enough for them to win." "The leadership of the FSA is American," a veteran FSA officer who defected from the Syrian army two years ago and won respect for leading rebel forces in southern Syria told McClatchy recently. "The Americans are completely marginalizing the military staff." To defeat ISIS, the U.S. commander in chief will have to eventually confront the Assad regime — a move that would strain tensions with an increasingly assertive Iran.....snip~
    IMO, had the U.S. increased support to Syria's sectarian elements, one might actually be dealing with a stronger ISIS, not a weaker one. In that case, the current dictatorship might have been sufficiently weakened to permit ISIS to take control of the entire country.

    On the point about building a coalition, Reuters reported:

    U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry pressed Arab leaders on Thursday to back President Barack Obama's new military drive against Islamic State, calling for tighter curbs on funding for militants and fewer extremist messages in Arab media.

    Meeting Arab leaders in the Saudi city of Jeddah a day after Obama announced his plans to strike fighters in Iraq and Syria, Kerry also sought permission to make more use of bases in the region and fly more warplanes overhead.


    Kerry presses Arabs to back campaign against Islamic State | Reuters

    IMO, these are things the President should have done before he finalized a strategy and before he gave his speech. In effect, he's asking the Arab leaders to accept a strategy in which they had little input and may not necessarily address their critical interests. Basic approach: Establish goals (with input), align support, then announce. What happened is that the President set a strategy before he aligned support, and then announced the strategy proclaiming a broad coalition which, in fact, does not yet exist.

    Finally, Russia has now weighed in. The same Reuters piece reported:

    The prospect of U.S. armed action in Syria also drew concern from Russia, which has backed Assad. In Moscow, the Foreign Ministry said air strikes in Syria would require a U.N. Security Council mandate or be considered an act of aggression, Interfax news agency reported.

    Given the precedent in Libya and announced increase in arms to sectarian groups in Syria, concern by Russia among other pro-Assad countries that there is a "backdoor regime change" component is not unreasonable, especially as no controls or mechanisms to preclude that outcome were mentioned. Considering that Arab support was not lined up in advance of the speech, my guess is that the U.S. never considered the possibility that Russia, Iran, and other Assad backers might have concerns and might also take measures of their own.

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    There are two completely contrary and opposite dynamics at work here;
    1- the situation in the Middle East is deteriorating and there is a serious lack of any Islamic stabilizing force to turn this around in any short order.
    2- the American people have little if any desire to become the worlds policeman and get involved in another major war - especially in the Middle East where lots of Americans see it as a cesspool anyways with only potential disaster no matter what the goal or plan.

    So the President of the USA - and that is irregardless if it is Obama or somebody else in the near future - has to resolve these two contrary forces and no matter how he or she does it - it has a good chance of turning into the same thing that steak does in 24 hours after ingestion.
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbabgone View Post
    HA! Great point.
    What I find difficult to understand is why we are arming crazy rebel terrorists on the other side of the world in order to assist them in overthrowing their own governments, while at the same time having the desire to see gun confiscation of lawful citizens at some point here in this country. Do they see gun owners here as an impediment to some agenda? They must, but the dichotomy in thinking does cause a general feeling of distrust.

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    When it comes to fighting terrorists Obama has put his money where his mouth is. I didn't watch the whole speech; just enough to understand what he's going to do with ISIS and I support that.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  10. #160
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, SouthernDemocrat.

    Yep, that's just what the world needs - dozens more extremist groups! And that is what he wants? WTH? It almost sounds like Obama is scolding ISIS for becoming big enough to warrant international notice! In other words, we're still going to continue to interfere in the ME, toppling governments because we want others in charge who want to go back to the dark ages.... all because they have religious arguments with each other, and have had for a thousand years - three times longer than America has been a country! This whole mess is too weird for me to try to make sense of it! Sanity has left the building, IMO....
    Well the article was satire, but its likely the end result. Everything we have done since 9/11 has basically taken big terrorist groups and broken them into lots of smaller ones.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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