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Thread: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

  1. #131
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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Interesting response from some of the left:



    The Baghdad Bureau Chief for the NY Times also pretty much admitted that the President had ignored the collapse of Iraq and growth of ISIL for political reasons.
    I watched some of the various networks' programming late in the night and was somewhat surprised by some reactions.

    I didn't notice it last night myself, but they were mentioning what appears to be his intentional use of "ISIL" instead of drawing it back to Iraq itself. They did keep repeating that it was Bush who got us into Iraq, and some for obvious reasons didn't want to place any blame on Obama for the current state of affairs there, but at the same time, it wasn't hard to read between the lines.

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    And where is your link to proof of this matter-of-fact statement?

    Not opinions from some Neocon ignoramuses.

    Factual proof from unbiased sources?

    Heya DA. Read Mike Doran from the Center of Strategic Studies for the ME. I doubt they can call him a Neo Con. After reading him.....you will see the lefts argument on Iraq get shown for the BS it always was.

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    There would be no ISIL had Bush never invaded Iraq in the first place.
    False.....AQ was already an Organization.

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    My impression is that the president was dragged into this by political realities. He obviously doesn't want much of anything to do with it. He actions are those of a man who will give the problem lip service, do too little too late, and then declare victory. I truly wish I could see it another way, but there's a history with Obama now, and I think he'll stay true to form.

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Then yer not happy the GOP finally got another war in Iraq?
    A war that GOP/FOX has ginned up with the American people by shamelessly using the two beheadings.

    Maybe we should go back to the dozens of our Iraqi soldiers who were electrocuted in faulty Haliburton showers.

    He also said he would close GITMO and GOP senators filibustered the Defense bill until he relented.

    Bush screwed the pooch on the SOFA agreement no matter how many times a certain poster lies about it and you know it .

    As usual you have no clue or history as to what has taken place with ISIL/ISIS in Syria and Iraq. Don't even know who was shipping weapons and who that was from the US.

    Here is a lil clue.....go and look up Clintons Friends of Syria, Meetings. So at least you have the basics down.

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TobyOne View Post
    There's some chatter that his flag pin was off center. He may be sending a message to sleeper cells.
    The real chatter was over Twitter with the terrorists and their supporters.....laughing and mocking BO and all he had to say.

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    False.....AQ was already an Organization.
    But, but Bush started AQ. He sent in Cheney, and Darth got it going when nobody was looking. Seriously, when are people going to learn here that radical Islam has been around for a long time? AQ, ISIS, Hamas and all the other groups are branches of the same tree. Same roots, and same objectives.

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    The House of GOP writes all appropriation bills.
    Thought you might have known that .
    The President and his Team put forth Budget. Every year. Make sure you don't forget that process too.

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Good analysis DS. As you see there was nothing much there. Note how he didn't use the word ISIS. He kept calling them ISIL. As if this will make that mean word go away. Then this was quite laughable......ISIL is not Islamic. He knows this from saying that no religion condones killing the innocent. Yet history has shown us otherwise.

    He want to arms the Rebels again.....and like you say, The Coalition should have already been put together.

    What is the difference in strategy with Yemen?
    The terrorist organization has been known by various names ISIS, ISIL, and now IS. I don't think the references to ISIL materially change the President's approach.

    There are similarities to Yemen e.g., drone and other air strikes. The big difference is that Yemen has a reasonably cooperative government. The U.S. is estranged from Syria's government. Syria is also in the midst of a larger sectarian conflict. Syria is vastly more complicated than Yemen is. Yemen, of course, is much more a work in progress than a success at this point in time.

    Finally, subsequent reporting has revealed that the U.S. is still trying to "broaden" the coalition by bringing the Gulf States, Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, and Turkey on board. I'm really taken aback that this was not already done. It should have been done much earlier. Indeed, after Iraq invaded Kuwait, President Bush had put together an Arab coalition in 7-10 days.

    It takes direct Presidential effort to do so. Bush recounted in his and Brent Scowcroft's A World Transformed (Alfred A. Knopf, 1998) with respect to August 7, 1990, "Throughout the rest of the day I worked the phones with our Arab allies, now reaching the other Gulf States." He added, "We were also gathering commitments from teh Western allies."

    Of August 11, Bush noted:

    I called Mubarak at 5:30 in the morning...and thanked him for his help. Hosni said that everyone understood we had pushed diplomacy, and that it was making a difference in building Arab support... Egyptian and Moroccan troops began to arrive in Saudi Arabia that same day, and with them stark evidence for Saddam that the Arab world too would stand up to him.

    That the U.S. had not created such a coalition right now and has not even defined roles for the coalition partners is astonishing. However, given how reactive and ad hoc American foreign policy has become in recent years, I'm not surprised that the kind of strategic thinking and execution required to put together a broad and effective coalition has not already occurred.

    Finally, Bush also revealed the benefits of having paid attention to prospective partners even before the Iraqi invasion observing:

    The year before, Mubarak had offered me some advice: touch base with these small countries whenever you can, just to acknowledge their importance to the United States, and it will make a difference with them. I had, and my wise friend Hosni had been absolutely right. We were now seeing some of the fruits of tending to these relationships.

    Priorities and building/sustaining relationships matter. The President prioritized in rapidly putting together an Arab coalition and he was intensely and personally involved in doing so, rather than outsourcing most or all of his efforts to others. Of course, his Secretary of State and Secretary of Defense were also heavily involved. At the same time, he carefully managed relationships and those efforts paid off.

    On a larger point, building and managing relationships is why Presidents such as Reagan, Clinton, and Bush (Sr.) were able to accomplish as much as they did even with the Opposition controlling one or both branches of Congress. One cannot understate the importance of investing time and effort in building and leveraging relationships with the people whose support can be crucial.

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    Re: Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

    As for the speech. It's been getting lotsa praise ... last night and this AM.
    I have to say, I was listening for something new.
    Something that hasn't been happening already ... I didn't hear it.
    Something that said "We're going to bomb the crap out of ISIS(L) home bases in Syria" ... but I didn't hear it.
    The closest thing I heard was "That means I will not hesitate to take action against ISIL in Syria, as well as Iraq."
    Now, after almost 6 years we all should know that doesn't mean he's going to bomb them in Syria.
    I could have missed the definitive language.
    Maybe he will, but you really have to parse this guy.
    He always covers all sides.
    (You know, it was a video, it was an act of terror, it was a video etc.)

    The other thing that struck me was the language that ISIL is not really an Islamic State, no one recognizes it as an Islamic State, and the Islamists were not really Islamic.
    So why the hell does he keep calling them ISIL?
    Why not go for accuracy and call them Islamic radical terrorists.
    But no, he's still clings to the notion that bad guys will behave once they realize he's a swell guy who knows we're no better than anyone else.

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