View Poll Results: Should paying ransoms to terrorists and other criminals be punished with prison time?

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Thread: Should paying ransoms to terrorists and other criminals be punished with prison time?

  1. #1
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    Should paying ransoms to terrorists and other criminals be punished with prison time?

    Should paying ransoms to terrorists and other criminals be punished with prison time?

    Yes
    No
    maybe/don't know

    Isis hostage threat: Which countries pay ransoms to release their citizens? - World Politics - World - The Independent
    David Cameron tells European leaders to stop funding ISIS with ransom payments | Mail Online




    I say yes.It should be treated no different than providing material support.When someone gives money to these scum they are giving them to kill other people and to carry out other criminal acts. Yeah it would suck if I or someone I cared about was a hostage of these scum.But at the same time paying money to these cockroaches in human form is basically paying them to kidnap and murder other people.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Should paying ransoms to terrorists and other criminals be punished with prison t

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Should paying ransoms to terrorists and other criminals be punished with prison time?

    Yes
    No
    maybe/don't know

    Isis hostage threat: Which countries pay ransoms to release their citizens? - World Politics - World - The Independent
    David Cameron tells European leaders to stop funding ISIS with ransom payments | Mail Online

    I say yes.It should be treated no different than providing material support.When someone gives money to these scum they are giving them to kill other people and to carry out other criminal acts. Yeah it would suck if I or someone I cared about was a hostage of these scum.But at the same time paying money to these cockroaches in human form is basically paying them to kidnap and murder other people.
    There are two questions in your post and they should be separated. The first is: If a family has a means to pay off the ransom, why shouldn't they pay it if they want to? The second is: If they do pay it, is it material support for these groups? Well, as far as federal law is concerned, ransom payments are illegal - as the law denotes 'material support' as a transfer of funds - and makes no exception for humanitarian reasons. However, not every country follows US federal law on the matter. So while we may frown upon these transfers of money, other countries may allow exceptions for humanitarian reasons.

    As far as the second question goes, if the family lives within a jurisdiction that allows it, I see absolutely no problem with them doing everything that is possible to rescue their loved ones. That includes paying a ransom. Making it illegal will just mean that people will find other ways to transfer the money and trust me, there are quite a few ways to move money without it looking suspicious to local law enforcement agencies.

    As a side point: It is important to note that this federal law is made by the same bodies who engage in prisoner swaps and have funded murderous paramilitary groups in Africa, South America and Asia. Now they're mad because people are doing whatever they can to save their loved ones from the geopolitical situations that they create?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Should paying ransoms to terrorists and other criminals be punished with prison t

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    There are two questions in your post and they should be separated. The first is: If a family has a means to pay off the ransom, why shouldn't they pay it if they want to? The second is: If they do pay it, is it material support for these groups? Well, as far as federal law is concerned, ransom payments are illegal - as the law denotes 'material support' as a transfer of funds - and makes no exception for humanitarian reasons. However, not every country follows US federal law on the matter. So while we may frown upon these transfers of money, other countries may allow exceptions for humanitarian reasons.

    As far as the second question goes, if the family lives within a jurisdiction that allows it, I see absolutely no problem with them doing everything that is possible to rescue their loved ones. That includes paying a ransom. Making it illegal will just mean that people will find other ways to transfer the money and trust me, there are quite a few ways to move money without it looking suspicious to local law enforcement agencies.
    You do realize that by paying that ransom that family is literally paying those terrorists to murder lots of innocent people and to take more hostages? That family is no different than the people who raise money for terrorists.

    As a side point: It is important to note that this federal law is made by the same bodies who engage in prisoner swaps and have funded murderous paramilitary groups in Africa, South America and Asia. Now they're mad because people are doing whatever they can to save their loved ones from the geopolitical situations that they create?
    1.The they did it too or did it in the past excuse doesn't fly with most people. Its like saying because our government at one time interned people and allowed slavery that somehow we should be cool with other countries do those things.

    2.Most of those people responsible for those things are no longer in power and did not do those things with the consent of the people,which is why those things were top secrete for awhile.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Should paying ransoms to terrorists and other criminals be punished with prison t

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    You do realize that by paying that ransom that family is literally paying those terrorists to murder lots of innocent people and to take more hostages? That family is no different than the people who raise money for terrorists.
    Logically it makes so much sense to sacrifice your loved one so as not to pay and feed their evil doing. Emotionally though you are being put to a position to save your loved ones by means of ransom paying, not many would deny the opportunity if they had the means.

    What could really work against these barbarians is if they failed to deliver the hostage live. Then the loved one would have a dilemma of not being certain that paying would release the loved one anyhow, thus may make the logical decision more probable perhaps.
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    Re: Should paying ransoms to terrorists and other criminals be punished with prison t

    The family that pays the ransom out of fear for their loved one is not responsible for what those terrorists/criminals do in the future. That is ridiculous and attempts to redirect blame from the terrorists to their victims.

    While it is pretty stupid to pay a ransom, it is also a very emotional decision based off of fear. It is made under extreme duress, which automatically means that such duress can be used as a defense, no matter what we know about paying ransoms. Those families that pay ransoms are not responsible for the future behavior of those criminals that they may have paid the ransom to.

    Trying to claim they are "funding" terrorism is ridiculous as well. It is like trying to claim that if someone robs a gun store or bank that the owner and/or security company for those places should be held responsible (which they shouldn't) for what is done in the future with those guns or the money gotten because they didn't provide adequate security to keep it out of the hands of criminals. It attempts to place blame on others rather than the actual culprits, the criminals, the terrorists.
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    Re: Should paying ransoms to terrorists and other criminals be punished with prison t

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    You do realize that by paying that ransom that family is literally paying those terrorists to murder lots of innocent people and to take more hostages? That family is no different than the people who raise money for terrorists.
    Actually, the family is different because it isn't willingly giving the money for a cause it supports. It is being coerced into doing so. This is blackmail and blackmail and raising money certainly are different.

    1.The they did it too or did it in the past excuse doesn't fly with most people. Its like saying because our government at one time interned people and allowed slavery that somehow we should be cool with other countries do those things.
    Only that's not what I said at all. I said that people are being forced to operate under the conditions which were created by governments funding these groups to begin with.

    2.Most of those people responsible for those things are no longer in power and did not do those things with the consent of the people,which is why those things were top secrete for awhile.
    Keep telling yourself that.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Should paying ransoms to terrorists and other criminals be punished with prison t

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Should paying ransoms to terrorists and other criminals be punished with prison time?

    Yes
    No
    maybe/don't know

    Isis hostage threat: Which countries pay ransoms to release their citizens? - World Politics - World - The Independent
    David Cameron tells European leaders to stop funding ISIS with ransom payments | Mail Online




    I say yes.It should be treated no different than providing material support.When someone gives money to these scum they are giving them to kill other people and to carry out other criminal acts. Yeah it would suck if I or someone I cared about was a hostage of these scum.But at the same time paying money to these cockroaches in human form is basically paying them to kidnap and murder other people.
    I tend to think so (in the case of organizations that it is already illegal to fund). But the defense of duress should be available to the person held hostage, if they were involved in arranging it.

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