View Poll Results: Are Neocons really conservatives?

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  • Yes

    14 46.67%
  • No

    16 53.33%
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Thread: Are Neocons Really Conservatives?

  1. #51
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    Re: Are Neocons Really Conservatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    No, they are not and I've been saying it for a long time. They do not follow any of the traditional conservative values. They are not fiscally conservative, they spend money like drunken sailors, just like the liberals. They are not for small government, government has grown under neo-con control, just like it has under the liberals. They are not interested in keeping the government out of the lives of the public, just like the liberals. There is nothing conservative about the neo-cons, which isn't surprising because they came from disenfranchised Southern Democrats!

    The neo-cons are just as liberal as the liberals are, they just wear a different hat.
    Aside from you being completely wrong, I need to add that neoconservatism has typically been a northern conservatism, rather than a southern conservatism.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Are Neocons Really Conservatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    This author is really confused, since the Vietnam war was foreign policy, and protest against it were protests against FP, how in the world could any of it be associated with "domestic policy"?

    Good grief, AR.....do you think at all about what you quote?
    If you weren't around or are uninformed, in 1972 the "New Left" (radical leftist associated with splinter groups of CPUS like the SDS) had entered the Democrat tent and gained control of the party. This is when liberal democrats who opposed communist expansion in the world started to leave the Democrat Party and were welcomed by the conservative base in the GOP because these liberals wanted to continue fighting the Cold War while the new liberals (New Left) or those hiding behind the liberal label in the Democrat Party wanted to surrender and not continue the Cold War.

    One of the last true liberals to leave the Democrat Party and come on board with the GOP and becoming part of the Reagan administration was Jeane Kirkpatrick.
    Every politico remembers Jean Kirkpatrick's speech during the 1984 GOP Convention, especially San Francisco liberals.

    1984 Jeane Kirkpatrick

    The speech:

    >" Thank you very much for that warm welcome.

    Thank you for inviting me.

    This is the first Republican Convention I have ever attended.

    I am grateful that you should invite me, a lifelong Democrat. On the other hand, I realize that you are inviting many lifelong Democrats to join this common cause.

    I want to begin tonight by quoting the speech of the president whom I very greatly admire, Harry Truman, who once said to the Congress:

    "The United States has become great because we, as a people, have been able to work together for great objectives even while differing about details."

    He continued:

    "The elements of our strength are many. They include our democratic government, our economic system, our great natural resources. But, the basic source of our strength is spiritual. We believe in the dignity of man."

    That's the way Democratic presidents and presidential candidates used to talk about America.

    These were the men who developed NATO, who developed the Marshall Plan, who devised the Alliance for Progress.

    They were not afraid to be resolute nor ashamed to speak of America as a great nation. They didn't doubt that we must be strong enough to protect ourselves and to help others.

    They didn't imagine that America should depend for its very survival on the promises of its adversaries.

    They happily assumed the responsibilities of freedom.

    I am not alone in noticing that the San Francisco Democrats took a very different approach..."<

    Continue -> AllPolitics - San Diego Convention - Famous Convention Speeches

  3. #53
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    Re: Are Neocons Really Conservatives?

    Domestic policy neoconservatism: James Madison Program

    For a good synopsis, check out the last video at about 7 minutes, 30 seconds.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  4. #54
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    Re: Are Neocons Really Conservatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    If you weren't around
    Actually, I was around....but your response is nothing more than a long winded non-sequitur. You still cannot see that the author of the piece you previously quoted did not know the difference between foreign and domestic policy.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  5. #55
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    Re: Are Neocons Really Conservatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Actually, I was around....but your response is nothing more than a long winded non-sequitur. You still cannot see that the author of the piece you previously quoted did not know the difference between foreign and domestic policy.
    Take it up with him.

    All I know is that neconservatives are not true conservatives but just patriotic liberals, like JFK type of liberals.

  6. #56
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    Re: Are Neocons Really Conservatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Take it up with him.
    I took it up with YOU when I asked YOU if you even think about the things you post.....and then you post a response that had NOTHING to do with my counter (again proving my point) and now you want to shift the blame to the author....as if he is responsible for you not reading his work!
    Amazing!

    All I know is that neconservatives are not true conservatives but just patriotic liberals, like JFK type of liberals.
    As pointed out by another poster earlier, this is the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  7. #57
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    Re: Are Neocons Really Conservatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I took it up with YOU when I asked YOU if you even think about the things you post.....and then you post a response that had NOTHING to do with my counter (again proving my point) and now you want to shift the blame to the author....as if he is responsible for you not reading his work!
    Amazing!

    As pointed out by another poster earlier, this is the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.
    The topic is, "are necons really conservatives ? "

    Only a conservative can answer that question, the answer is no.

    Anyone who thinks they are is probably so far out in left field, that any thing to them seems to be conservative.

    You always hear the Democrats claiming that the GOP has moved to the right. But in reality it's the Democrats who have moved so far to the left that the GOP looks further away.

    Before the New Left took control of the Democrat Party name just one Democrat who ever blamed America ?

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    Re: Are Neocons Really Conservatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Well, given the number of left leaning (therefore presumed "communist") democracies (mostly in Latin America) that the US toppled and replaced with right wing dictators, its hard to imagine a goal to defend democracy around the world. American (business) "interests" around the world is what drives most foreign policy.
    Good points!

  9. #59
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    Re: Are Neocons Really Conservatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    The topic is, "are necons really conservatives ? "

    Only a conservative can answer that question, the answer is no.
    Bullchit, anyone can show by argument that they are.

    Anyone who thinks they are is probably so far out in left field, that any thing to them seems to be conservative.
    I know, like the Encyclopedia Britannica....damn leftwingers!

    You always hear the Democrats claiming that the GOP has moved to the right. But in reality it's the Democrats who have moved so far to the left that the GOP looks further away.
    Sure, the Dems have there own bagger cult pulling them left, what blindness!

    Before the New Left took control of the Democrat Party name just one Democrat who ever blamed America ?
    Ah, rhetorical questions substituting for debate.

    You still haven't addressed my original point. Just non-sequiturs and diversions.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  10. #60
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    Re: Are Neocons Really Conservatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I really do not think the terms are sufficiently robust to operationalize that point. All three would concede that the policing is required. It is more a question of who and how at present. But even in a longer term perspective they would tend to converge.
    The thing that differentiates the neocons, with regards to policing is that they take it to an extreme level, e.g. the doctrine of pre-emption, which is a very dangerous way of formulating foreign policy as it's paranoid approach which tends to create new threats and increase the level of threat of existing ones.

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