View Poll Results: Are Neocons really conservatives?

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  • Yes

    14 46.67%
  • No

    16 53.33%
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Thread: Are Neocons Really Conservatives?

  1. #21
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    Re: Are Neocons Really Conservatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I already did, extensively; perhaps re-read the thread. I'm offering to engage in the topic of the OP give another's definition.

    Do you have anything to offer?
    All you have done is to demand other cite definition, offer catchy terms (geolib!) and single aspect descriptions. If you consider yourself a neocon, yet cannot offer a self definition.....don't talk to me about offering something.

    DEFINE IT, STOP THE GAME OF OTHERS GIVING YOU SOMETHING FOR YOU TO SHOOT DOWN.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  2. #22
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    Re: Are Neocons Really Conservatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Yes, it is. It's mine. I do not demand you accept my conceptualization of 'neocon'. Are you here to complain or debate?
    one or 3 word catch phrases ARE NOT "conceptualizing" or defining. All you have done is engaged in semantic nonsense.

    You have not offered anything of substance to debate, only hypocritically whined about other not offering definition.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  3. #23
    global liberation

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    Re: Are Neocons Really Conservatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    one or 3 word catch phrases ARE NOT "conceptualizing" or defining. All you have done is engaged in semantic nonsense.
    Projection

  4. #24
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    Re: Are Neocons Really Conservatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Here's an interesting piece from the American Conservative:

    What’s a Neoconservative? | The American Conservative

    According to this author, the neoconservative view of America policing the world to rid it of evil is not really traditional conservative value, but rather a liberal one:



    So, to quote a message board MC, what say ye? Are the neocons really conservatives?
    I really do not think the terms are sufficiently robust to operationalize that point. All three would concede that the policing is required. It is more a question of who and how at present. But even in a longer term perspective they would tend to converge.

  5. #25
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    Re: Are Neocons Really Conservatives?

    Oh look, a No True Scotsman thread. Ever notice how liberals don't go in for this kind of thing? We'll criticize each other for compromising on specific issues, but we're very seldom trying to prove that a whole segment of our constituency aren't really liberals.

    Also, trying to describe neo-cons as liberals requires several fundamental misunderstandings of what liberals actually support. Unless you're just using liberal to mean "not my specific view of conservative", in which case it's simply being used wrong.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  6. #26
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    Re: Are Neocons Really Conservatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Economic freedom is expression?
    Yes, I think so. However, when you do these really short questions with no elaboration, I'm not sure how to interpret or respond to your questions.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  7. #27
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    Re: Are Neocons Really Conservatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Projection
    FFS....reduced to one word responses...and still cannot offer up a definition.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  8. #28
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    Re: Are Neocons Really Conservatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Yes, I think so.
    I agree.

    However, when you do these really short questions with no elaboration, I'm not sure how to interpret or respond to your questions.
    If you agree economic freedom is a form of expression and you agree liberal social policy supports expression, the only aspect remaining is how foreign policy can support freedom. And thus we find ourselves at the fundamental ethical quandary: authoritarianism for the greater good; that is, how does libertarianism fit with interventionism.

    In the case of foreign policy, I find the greater good in valuing the sovereignty of the people over the sovereignty of tyrants.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 09-09-14 at 05:13 PM.

  9. #29
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    Re: Are Neocons Really Conservatives?

    Neoconservatives are the liberals with in the GOP.

    neoconservative

    : a former liberal espousing political conservatism
    Neoconservative - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

    Neoconservative

    >" A political liberal was just a liberal in the 1930s and 1940s, but the reaction to Stalinism prompted a new type of liberal to surface on the political scene, and those liberals supported the Cold War. The term neoconservative was used to describe this group, and many of them were Jewish and emerging intellectuals that lived in New York City. Most of them considered themselves liberal democrats in the 1960s when the New Left or hippie movement in the US became a voice in the movement for American reform...

    In the beginning, neoconservatives were more concerned with domestic policy than foreign policy thus strongly opposed the counterculture movement of the 1960s, which they blatantly called anti-Americanism. The Vietnam War served as the catalyst that separated the Democratic Party into two factions: the anti-war faction and the war-supporting neoconservatives.

    Today, neoconservatives advocate the use of American economic and military power to destroy enemies they perceive as threatening to American liberal democracy as well as liberal democracy in other countries. The change of focus initially occurred when the anti-war faction of the Democratic Party took control in 1972 by nominating George McGovern. The neoconservative faction rallied around Senator Henry Jackson and the "second age" of neoconservatism was born from the revolt. The focus was now on the Cold War.

    President Lyndon Johnson's New Left policies pushed the Democratic Party to the left, so the intellectuals in the neoconservative faction became disillusioned with his domestic agenda. Ben Wattenberg's 1970 book, The Real Majority brought out the point that the majority in the party actually supported social conservatism. The book also warned the party that liberal stances on crime and social issues could be disastrous..."<

    Definitions - The Daily Bell

  10. #30
    global liberation

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    Re: Are Neocons Really Conservatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    FFS....reduced to one word responses...and still cannot offer up a definition.
    Maybe I'm just dumb, huh?

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