Russia, ISIS or Ebola?

Fearandloathing said:

Ah, but then there is Quebec roast pork, Pea Soup..


You know what, one of my great prides is how our two nations have gotten over any differences. We have, since the civil war fought shoulder shoulder, in four nasty wars. And we do live with the security our other neighbor pays us deep respect because the full might of the United States; the Peace Arch here is engrave "children of a common mother" which kinds of tells it all. When we enter the international ice hockey arena, Americans cheer for use as loudly as we do them when either gets knocked out of contention. The United States is our most respected opponent on the ice, where everything counts in this country, as you have adopted our game jst as we have adopted your legal concepts.

We have risked Canadian lives to protect Americans in Tehran, opened our doors to stranded air travelers when you were attacked and were the first foreign boots on the ground in New York and any time there's a brush fire in California, our way of thanks for keeping the Russian Bear where she belongs.

And, oh yeah, we easily forgave your for those two invasions, well we did win anyway

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Yes, Canadians are most definitely NOT Americans, but they are our brothers and sisters. Literally, in my case. :mrgreen:

Ahf.. hockey, what a jewel of a sport, Maurice 'Rocket' Richard. Hockey, even before the great Gretzky. In the Winter Olympics we brought the Gold home and I actually watched that game.

You remember Tehran, huh? Not many people know what a benefit the Canadians played in that outcome.

Forgive us for we know not our own might.

grip said:

Yes, Canadians are most definitely NOT Americans, but they are our brothers and sisters. Literally, in my case. :mrgreen:

Ahf.. hockey, what a jewel of a sport, Maurice 'Rocket' Richard. Hockey, even before the great Gretzky. In the Winter Olympics we brought the Gold home and I actually watched that game.

You remember Tehran, huh? Not many people know what a benefit the Canadians played in that outcome.

Forgive us for we know not our own might.

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One of my main worries is that we don't know our weaknesses either.

NIMBY said:

But you were not talking about the 1980 Olympics in the post I quoted were you.
You were talking about how folks shouldn't have had to run to Canada, which even my Military Dad told me to go.

Instead, I played the cynical game as #32 in 1972's draft which never happened, and I knew it would never happen due to Nixon playing politics.
Not to mention that 1972 was also the first year there was no 2S college deferment--what a coincidence--NOT.

Now speak to me about President Carter being unfairly trashed by GOPs for granting amnesty--
something you would have supported based on your position that they shouldn't have had to run to Canada .

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Oh, I'm not unsupportive of your opinion. Carter was an idiot about the Olympics, otherwise I liked him.

The Mark said:

One of my main worries is that we don't know our weaknesses either.

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We can never know all our problems but we'll face them, whether we like it or not.

grip said:

We can never know all our problems but we'll face them, whether we like it or not.

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This is true.

It's nice to realize them before they get too big though.

this could have been a Warren Zevon song if he was still around

Isis is probably the most pressing

The Mark said:

This is true.

It's nice to realize them before they get too big though.

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Unfortunately, we'll never know what should be forefront and what should be back burner.

I have no doubt our power will become obvious when needed.

I'd say Ebola. Terrorists and soldiers are much easier to fight than an infinitely replicating super-virus that has already shown signs of mutation, especially for the country with the most powerful military in the history of the world.

grip said:

I'll say realistically, we'll probably contain ALL three, but there's a chance something could spiral. I didn't create these situations, nor do I cry "the sky is falling", only offer debate.

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So I have to choose? I'll take door number three. I think disease is a greater danger than the other two. The other two we can control. A disease, perhaps not so much.

TurtleDude said:

this could have been a Warren Zevon song if he was still around

Isis is probably the most pressing

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I think ebola is probably a bigger threat at this point. Someone gets on a plane from Liberia to anywhere...the potential of the virus coming to the US is there.

ISIS is probably the one we can hope to do something about with the military (try shooting a virus sometime). Basically, there's things we can do to stop ISIS. Ebola...a lot less.

Keeping highly infectious diseases out of the country isnt going to happen. That ship has sailed, if it was ever possible.

Our borders are like sieves.

Lursa said:

Keeping highly infectious diseases out of the country isnt going to happen. That ship has sailed, if it was ever possible.

Our borders are like sieves.

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And even if the border were absolutely secure, how do you keep someone from entering legally if all their paperwork is in order and they show no outward signs of illness?

rocket88 said:

And even if the border were absolutely secure, how do you keep someone from entering legally if all their paperwork is in order and they show no outward signs of illness?

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Yup.

But if there is an outbreak, if we had closeable borders, airports, shipping ports, etc, we could close them.

Russia.

I do not see it as a threat. It wasn't a threat so far.
People get threatened by Russia by it's history (USSR). Seems like the black hole that USSR left to Europe, was more than Nazi's hole.
USSR is persecuting some people even now in 2014.
While we bitch around here about Russia, USSR and KGB, Putin is doing "the moderator" out there. While he achieve agreements for peace with Ukraine president, the West/US keep pushing with sanctions. At this point is not the opposite media or anti Obama group who underrate the West/US values. Are the leaders themselves. It seem so easy for Putin to find the concurrent language with Ukraine who been fighting each others for so long and it seem so hard to find the concurrent language with the West/US (aka the true diplomats)

ISIS

The beheading, is a fenomen not new to our world, not the first and not the last. We have also seen a lot from terrorists and non terrorists. The main threat of ISIS isn't what it is doing in Iraq and Syria.
The beheading videos. ISIS goal is not to send the message to West/USA with the dead journalist. Instead, they are sending the message with the man who does the beheading. An UK citizen, transmitting the threat to the West is much more to be worried about than a dead journalist (without offending the dead men). All Europe and world was shocked how ISIS got so many foreign fighters and most of them came from most civilized countries (like UK, France, USA, Canada etc.).
Most of these people left a very good job behind. Most of them were doctors, dentists, financiers. Most of them left their children behind. It must have been something really important for someone with a good job, a good house, a good family to go there and leave everything behind.
The West and US have been in quiet so far because indeed there really is so less information about ISIS. Of course you don't have to look about ISIS in Syria and Iraq because there is just fights (they even upload videos daily). ISIS need to be investigated inside Europe.
Main threat is that here around us might be a lot of jihadists and unfortunately we can never figure that out. Might be your doctor, your dentist, your teacher, your fire worker etc.
So before thinking to attack ISIS military, we need to know how did these group become so big and powerful within a year and how did they achieved to recruit people from most civilized countries of the world (from that part of world where peace and love is a saint value).
If you destroy the ISIS now, you'll destroy all the evidences which are needed to fight them. Because ISIS can't be fought only with guns.

Ebola

I do not trust none of the viruses by a long time.
Every time there is a virus, within a short time the anti virus is on market.
We have very good scientists or we have very good business men.

Lursa said:

Yup.

But if there is an outbreak, if we had closeable borders, airports, shipping ports, etc, we could close them.

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Theoretically, but that would not be very good for business or for foreign relations.

rocket88 said:

Theoretically, but that would not be very good for business or for foreign relations.

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To temporarily close them?

Well I'm sure you're right tho, because $$$ will always come first.

humbolt said:

So I have to choose? I'll take door number three. I think disease is a greater danger than the other two. The other two we can control. A disease, perhaps not so much.

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Oddly, I had the opposite reaction, because I'm fairly sure we already know how to control the current ebola outbreak, but I have no way of knowing whether we have the slightest clue how to contain the other issues.

The Mark said:

Oddly, I had the opposite reaction, because I'm fairly sure we already know how to control the current ebola outbreak, but I have no way of knowing whether we have the slightest clue how to contain the other issues.

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We dont even know the reservoir for Ebola....if it comes over here and finds a similar host....we could be screwed.

The disease has never circulated in any population in the numbers it has in this outbreak in Africa. This opens up more and more chances for the virus to change to fit it's new opportunities. Yes, mutate....most viruses do to some degree in virulence, back and forth....but it could also change in transmission/vectors.

If that happens...it will be very very ugly here.

grip said:

Which of these ongoing potential problems is worse and more likely?


Threat #1

Conventional conflict over Ukraine with NATO and US, possibly escalating to nuclear war with Russia..


-- Russia says they're trying to support a truce in Ukraine, but by announcing new sanctions that are expected to be formally approved on Monday, the EU's leadership "is practically sending a signal of direct support to the 'party of war' in Kiev.

Britain said on Friday it could contribute 3,500 troops to a NATO rapid response force defending against new threats like the Ukraine crisis. The rapid reaction force is meant to reassure former Soviet satellites such as Poland and the Baltic states that fear an emboldened Russia will turn its sights on them. --


Threat #2

ISIS attacks on US soil with devastating results, possibly even knocking out the power grid, crippling the US for months..


-- When Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel warned last month that the Islamic State (IS) is an “imminent” threat to the United States, a number of lawmakers and analysts seized upon that claim.

“This is really the first group that has the wherewithal in terms of financing” to potentially strike on US soil, said Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D) of California, who chairs the Senate Intelligence Committee. IS, also called ISIS and ISIL, has “heavy equipment, heavy explosives, the ability to move quickly.”

Indeed, many have argued that IS now represents a far greater prospect of peril to US interests than Al Qaeda does. --


Threat #3

Ebola virus spreading slowly thru the US, possibly becoming more infectious thru mutation.
Z-mapp and other inoculations either can't be manufactured fast enough or lose effectiveness..


-- Obama told NBC's "Meet the Press" that the Ebola outbreak, which has killed 2,100 people in African five countries, was unlikely to spread to the United States in the short term.

But he added there could be implications if Washington and other powers did not send urgently needed equipment, public health workers and other supplies to the region.

"If we don't make that effort now, and this spreads not just through Africa but other parts of the world, there's the prospect then that the virus mutates. It becomes more easily transmittable," he said in the interview broadcast on Sunday.

"And then it could be a serious danger to the United States," he added. --

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I think that the militarization of the police and gang violence in the USA are far worse than ISIS could be in 100 years of trying. Russia will evolve into nothing with the USA but Ebola could be a problem buy I doubt it.

Bodhisattva said:

I think that the militarization of the police and gang violence in the USA are far worse than ISIS could be in 100 years of trying. Russia will evolve into nothing with the USA but Ebola could be a problem buy I doubt it.

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Militarized Police and violent gangs are a small and isolated issue for now. The problem with protests and riots are that crowds can't sustain them for any period and also provide for their daily needs. This eventually pressures them to break up and return to living routines for subsistence.

Ebola, from what we're now hearing will probably continue to spread but it won't be a big population killer. It'll have a larger geographical area to emerge from occasionally, like HIV or HepC but with big pharma's working on a vaccine, it'll likely be tamped down. Unless, it suddenly mutates into a more virulent and airborne version, unlikely.

Russia fighting for gas and oil resources could be a problem if someone miscalculates a military move. But we've been, essentially, playing geopolitical chess with them for the past 60 years. I think the worst thing that might actually happen is a series of economic sanctions that could cause unforeseen, domino effects in the global markets, affecting everyone.

Immigration is much worse. Together with immigrants there is illegal flow of drugs, weapons, prohibited stimulant drugs. Children immigration - a complex of problems associated with prostitution, child labor. And moreover - Obama is the greatest threat for the country

Simon Feltser said:

Immigration is much worse. Together with immigrants there is illegal flow of drugs, weapons, prohibited stimulant drugs. Children immigration - a complex of problems associated with prostitution, child labor. And moreover - Obama is the greatest threat for the country

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I agree that something like the illegal immigration problem, if gone unchecked, is a larger potential threat to the stability of the south western region of the US in the long run. It's such a political 'hot potato' for sensitive voting blocks and low wage labor positions that they don't want to really address the issue.

Thread update:

Several analysts said Russia is already carving out a mini-state which would allow it to keep up the pressure on Kiev, as it has done in Georgia, where Moscow backed two separatist republics in the conflict there in 2008, and in Transdniestr, the Moldovan region where the Kremlin has also backed separatists.

NATO chief Anders Fogh Rasmussen said Monday that the "long-term ambition of Russia is to establish a zone of influence in its near neighborhood" and stop bordering countries from joining alliances such as the EU or NATO.

How far is Putin prepared to go in Ukraine?

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Western/EU sanctions are having an impact on the ruble and Russian economy. But Russia is patient and knows we have our hands full. I suspect they'll annex at least Crimea and an Eastern portion of the Ukraine. "The Ukranian economy would be devastated by any such move, which would cost the country seven seaports including Odessa as well as two nuclear power stations, with an estimated loss of 27 percent of gross domestic product (GDP)."

A series of mysterious airstrikes, which U.S. officials have previously said were carried out by Egypt and the United Arab Emirates, have reinforced the perception that Libya has become a proxy battleground for larger regional struggles -- with Turkey and Qatar backing the Islamist militias and Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the UAE supporting their opponents.

With the United States building an international coalition to confront the radical Islamic State group in Iraq and Syria, Egypt has been pressing for an expansion of the coalition's focus to battle Libya's militias as well.

Egypt's Foreign Minister Sameh Shukri told an international security conference in Paris on Monday that the two conflicts were linked. Referring to the Islamic State group by its Arabic acronym "Daesh."

http://news.yahoo.com/mystery-airstrikes-target-libyan-islamist-militias-142139798.html

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I guess the US support of the 'Arab Spring', removing dictators and spreading democracy isn't working out to well? How many countries are involved in the ME strife and our 'War on Terror', Qatar, Turkey, Lybia, Tunisia, Egypt, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Syria, Iran, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Jordan, Israel. We may not have created the sectarian violence and Islamic extremism of this region, but we sure haven't help reduce it.

Apparently, we're we back in War or were we never really out? What a high price our revenge has cost us.

The unprecedented Ebola outbreak in West Africa requires a $1 billion response to keep its spread within the "tens of thousands" of cases, United Nations officials said on Tuesday. The outbreak is now out of control and the U.S. is planning to send in military personnel and equipment as part of the international effort to try and bring it under control.

"Quite frankly, ladies and gentlemen, this health crisis we're facing is unparalleled in modern times," Aylward told a news conference in Geneva. "We don't know where the numbers are going on this."

Ebola cases may be kept within tens of thousands, WHO says

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Ebola has spread in the unsanitary conditions of West Africa, and researchers fear that given time the virus may evolve the ability to be transmitted through the air.

Though many in the developed world are understandably fearful of the disease, many health officials claim that the only reason this particular outbreak has grown as large as it has is because of where it hit. The areas that have been hit the hardest lack sufficient health care systems and are unable to provide necessary treatment for the patients or personal protective equipment for health care workers. Unsanitary conditions have allowed the outbreak to grow incredibly rapid.

Ten Things You Really Should Know About Ebola | IFLScience

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Ironic, that the very poverty stricken areas of the world without proper plumbing, healthcare and unsanitary practices, caused a disease that can reach the uncaring, wealthy elite. A virus does not recognize someones superior work ethic, attitude and fortune. It's an equal opportunity killer, and simply trying to cut off and quarantine the poor areas will eventually fail, because a pathogen can always find a way out.

Maybe spending the trillions, wasted on war and hoarding, instead on global healthcare, education and better living conditions would've caused less problems? Nah, go ahead and tell me why that's wrong?

Thread bump: :2bump:

Over a month ago, I created this thread listing the 3 top worries for the World and US, was I right or what? ... j/k

Should've added a fourth about Market instability, due to all these problems.

None of these have any possibility of happening, especially not the ISIS and Ebola "threat" you speak of.