Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

I say something else, because the poll question was badly stated. What it should of said was, "Today, Is Islam a Religion of Peace"

Because there is no question, there is no more violent religion TODAY than Islam.

Hamster Buddha said:

Man I want some of that good stuff you are smoking. By the way, I found it very interesting in the way you worded your response, limiting it to take about "the population is Christian" instead of what is going on in the middle east (and even in Indonesia) where religion is being carried out in the NAME of said religion. And there in lies the difference. The last time Christians were killing on this scale was pre-reformation. Today, and that is all that matters in this discussion, today, Islam is being used to justify horrific acts of violence and depravity.

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Just as Christianity is being used to justify horrific acts of violence and depravity in these African countries. The interesting parts of the wording of my post are all in your head. Christianity and Hinduism are responsible for horrific violence the same way that Islam is.

Also, your assertion that Christians are not killing in the name of Christianity on a significant scale in any recent history is complete and utter nonsense. The horrific death tolls from colonialism in Africa, China, and right here in the Americas were all carried out in the name of Christianity. The Holocaust was motivated by Christian hatred of Jews, Gypsies, blacks, and gays.

But we are talking about today. Today Christianity is responsible for the horrific treatment of women and gays in southern Africa, and for massacres and torture. And for not checking the spread of HIV with contraceptives. Today Hinduism is responsible for the horrific treatment of women and gays in India, and for massacres and torture. Today Islam is responsible for the horrific treatment of women and gays in the Middle East and northern Africa, and for massacres and torture.

All three have a lot of blood on their hands, and it is growing every day.

Paschendale said:

Just as Christianity is being used to justify horrific acts of violence and depravity in these African countries. The interesting parts of the wording of my post are all in your head. Christianity and Hinduism are responsible for horrific violence the same way that Islam is.

Also, your assertion that Christians are not killing in the name of Christianity on a significant scale in any recent history is complete and utter nonsense. The horrific death tolls from colonialism in Africa, China, and right here in the Americas were all carried out in the name of Christianity. The Holocaust was motivated by Christian hatred of Jews, Gypsies, blacks, and gays.

But we are talking about today. Today Christianity is responsible for the horrific treatment of women and gays in southern Africa, and for massacres and torture. And for not checking the spread of HIV with contraceptives. Today Hinduism is responsible for the horrific treatment of women and gays in India, and for massacres and torture. Today Islam is responsible for the horrific treatment of women and gays in the Middle East and northern Africa, and for massacres and torture.

All three have a lot of blood on their hands, and it is growing every day.

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Where is the Christian version of ISIS? Where is the Hindu version of Boko Haram? I'll give you the prejudice towards gays, but there is nothing on the scale of what is going on with Islam in terms of torture or massacres. Where you are clearly confused, is the fact that you equate a population that follows a certain religion that commits horrific acts, a la NAZI Germany, to one that does so in the name of said god. Hitler wasn't going around telling people, "God is telling me to kill all the Jews and Gypsies." Or are we forgetting the three million Christian poles that died during the holocaust?

I have a serious question though for you. Why in your post did you feel the need to bring up events that happened 70-100 year ago, when you know we're just talking about today? I know in your second paragraph you make an attempt (pathetic as it were) to draw an analogy to today, but the fact you had to go back at all, shows just how weak that side of the argument is.

Finally, most laughably, are you comparing "Christians..... not checking the spread of HIV with contraceptives" to ISIS beheading people in the name of ALLAH? Oh the lengths liberals will go to try and paint the picture that we're all the same and no one is better or worse than the other...

radcen said:

Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

Yes?
No?
Yes and no?
Something else?

Please give some thoughts behind your conclusion.

Bonus question: In your opinion, why did Bush II go out of his way to refer to it as such after 9/11? Do you think he actually believed it? Do you think he was trying to keep people (us and them) calm?

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Have you watched the news lately? The answer is no.

Yes and no.

I've never read the actual religious texts, so I don't know about that.

For some its a religion of peace. For many others it requires violence.

I think it may be important to remember that for much of Christianity's history, there were extremist christians who acted like extremist islamists today. It's only more recently that it has evolved into a more peaceful religion.

ecofarm said:

You've never listened to Michael Savage?

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No, don't know of him. Anyway, I meant on this site!

US Conservative said:

Try to answer this as best as you can. Who is currently beheading children and blowing up planes?

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As I said, Christianity has had the moderating influence of secular society. 500 years ago, it was the Christians doing evil. Now it's the Muslims. Neither are inherently better than the other.

radcen said:

Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

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Just as much as Christianity and Judaism are.

radcen said:

Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

Yes?
No?
Yes and no?
Something else?

Please give some thoughts behind your conclusion.

Bonus question: In your opinion, why did Bush II go out of his way to refer to it as such after 9/11? Do you think he actually believed it? Do you think he was trying to keep people (us and them) calm?

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If one takes a historical view, Islam has a long way to go to catch up to the violence by mainstream "Christians". Just as one should not judge Christianity by the actions of those who do not understand what the Bible teaches us, we should not judge Islam by the actions of those who do not understand what the Qur'an teaches them.

I wrote a book once, and as part of the book I had to do quite a bit of research into the Qur'an, the Hadiths, and the Sunna. I am a strong Christian, and while I cannot claim to have even the level of knowledge of Islam that the normal Muslim layman has, I can say that it was a real education to see for myself how so many Muslims have been led astray from the teachings in the Qur'an. As far as I can tell, most of the problem lay in the Hadiths and Sunnas - the writings and sayings of Muslim scholars after the death of Muhammed. The prophet Muhammed stated that nothing is to be written of him or the teachings in the Qur'an after his death, but that is precisely what the Hadiths and Sunnas are. For instance, it was in one the Hadiths by "Bukhari" (again, if I remember correctly) that says if a woman or a black dog walks in front of a man praying to God, then God will not hear his prayers. That is not in the Qur'an, but there are those who claim to be Muslim who follow that Hadith.

So I compare those who follow the Hadiths and Sunnas to the point where such corrupts their faith to those who claim to be Christian, who follow verses in Deuteronomy to justify acts that Jesus Himself obviously rejected.

Hamster Buddha said:

Where is the Christian version of ISIS? Where is the Hindu version of Boko Haram? I'll give you the prejudice towards gays, but there is nothing on the scale of what is going on with Islam in terms of torture or massacres. Where you are clearly confused, is the fact that you equate a population that follows a certain religion that commits horrific acts, a la NAZI Germany, to one that does so in the name of said god. Hitler wasn't going around telling people, "God is telling me to kill all the Jews and Gypsies." Or are we forgetting the three million Christian poles that died during the holocaust?

I have a serious question though for you. Why in your post did you feel the need to bring up events that happened 70-100 year ago, when you know we're just talking about today? I know in your second paragraph you make an attempt (pathetic as it were) to draw an analogy to today, but the fact you had to go back at all, shows just how weak that side of the argument is.

Finally, most laughably, are you comparing "Christians..... not checking the spread of HIV with contraceptives" to ISIS beheading people in the name of ALLAH? Oh the lengths liberals will go to try and paint the picture that we're all the same and no one is better or worse than the other...

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Why do you keep ignoring the violence in Africa? Groups exactly like ISIS who want to implement the exact same kind of society (except Christian instead of Muslim) are doing the exact same thing. The only difference is that it's a lot of little ones instead of one big one. It's been going on, pretty much nonstop, for at least a century. These are the most devout Christian countries in the world, where they take scripture quite literally and follow it as exactly as possible. Just like fundamentalist Muslims do.

I don't understand the pathological hatred some people have for Islam. Is it the cultural rivalry that Europe had with the Middle East for so long? Can't you realize that your religions and the worldviews they promote are almost identical? You only spend a moment trying to deny the violence in India, but we can chalk that up to just plain old ignorance. It's sad that you aren't any better than they are. I wish you were. But the facts show that, in a country where religion is unchecked, Christianity is just as brutal and cruel as Islam and Hinduism are. Judaism probably would be, too, since it preaches the same repressive tenants.

Krhazy said:

Yes and no.

I've never read the actual religious texts, so I don't know about that.

For some its a religion of peace. For many others it requires violence.

I think it may be important to remember that for much of Christianity's history, there were extremist christians who acted like extremist islamists today. It's only more recently that it has evolved into a more peaceful religion.

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It has only done so in places that are primarily secular. As I keep pointing out, in countries without a secular basis, most notably southern Africa, there is just as much religious violence from Christianity. Likewise there is a lot of violence in the name of Hinduism in India.

US Conservative said:

And yet some actually are more peaceful than others. And then theres the political ideologies like communism...

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While I'm hesitant to reduce human behavior to an equation, humans follow pretty reliable algorithms when it comes to how warlike a given civilization is. The Middle East has always been an extremely violent place because the number of humans who live there vastly exceeds accessible resources. Nonetheless, people have continued to live there because it was (1) centrally located along a number of important trade routes and (2) as a result of (1) enjoys an ancient accumulation of "capital investment" disproportionate to being such a comparatively poor region and (3) they were born there and it is what they know. Unlike the United States or Europe, where rival parties often benefited by overcoming their differences, prosperity in the Middle East usually has to come at somebody else's expense. Hence the origins of 150 or so tribes in Iraq alone. Those tribes have always worked together to prosper at another's tribe's expense.

Even if Islam didn't exist, you would expect the Middle East to be a violent place.

Since 1 in 5 people on this planet affiliate themselves with it, I'm gonna say it's obvious, yeah it's peaceful.

Unfortunately you've got people who've wanted to use Islam as an excuse to further their own worldly ambitions. You've got people who have plenty of access to guns but little access to knowledge.


I can go on a Hare Krishna inspired killing rampage, does that make those delightful people selling pencils at the airport violent? Does it make Hare violent? Or is it me using old Hare as a justifier?

Religion is a man-made and man-run government sitting on top of spiritual ideas, ideas about our place in the universe, and the ideas of what society should be. And different leaders can take the same root ideas to interpret and preach them to others in very different ways while continuing to claim the same umbrella name like "Christianity" or "Islam". Sometimes these different teachings are broken out into formally recognized denominations, sometimes not.

So the most practical answer is that Islam as an umbrella label for religious practices is nether peaceful nor violent in itself, because it's individual interpretations and practices that make it peaceful or violent.

Those who would call Islam inherently violent and Christianity inherently peaceful are going a long way to overlooking all the violence the Bible can be interpreted to allow or even encourage, as evidenced by its warping in the past to justify great amounts of violence from the Crusades to the Salem Witch Trials.

Cephus said:

As I said, Christianity has had the moderating influence of secular society. 500 years ago, it was the Christians doing evil. Now it's the Muslims. Neither are inherently better than the other.

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I didn't say one was better. Its very myopic to blame this on secular society or to put Christianity and Islam on the same plane. The fact that you have to go back 500 years is evidence on its face of being held to a different standard.

Morality Games said:

While I'm hesitant to reduce human behavior to an equation, humans follow pretty reliable algorithms when it comes to how warlike a given civilization is. The Middle East has always been an extremely violent place because the number of humans who live there vastly exceeds accessible resources. Nonetheless, people have continued to live there because it was (1) centrally located along a number of important trade routes and (2) as a result of (1) enjoys an ancient accumulation of "capital investment" disproportionate to being such a comparatively poor region and (3) they were born there and it is what they know. Unlike the United States or Europe, where rival parties often benefited by overcoming their differences, prosperity in the Middle East usually has to come at somebody else's expense. Hence the origins of 150 or so tribes in Iraq alone. Those tribes have always worked together to prosper at another's tribe's expense.

Even if Islam didn't exist, you would expect the Middle East to be a violent place.

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You are correct on the factors in the ME, but this doesn't account for the 80% of muslims who live outside the ME. The problems with violence occur in africa and central/east asia as well.

Its a throwback-the brutality we see in Islam (let alone the oppression, intolerance, etc) is how the world was 1000 years ago.

MarineTpartier said:

Have you watched the news lately? The answer is no.

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Can you expand on that and maybe give some examples? Simply stating 'no' based on watching the news is utterly unconvincing.

Cephus said:

Religion doesn't exist at all without people. If you want to make excuses, then people are to blame for everything that happens in society and nothing else is ever actually responsible. That pretty much does away with any kind of argument against any idea at all. People are always to blame. Of course, the people who make that argument only tend to do so when it comes to things they hold dear, things they want to defend. It's the "no true Scotsman" argument. Nobody who EVER does anything bad can't possibly really belong to their religion, they must be an a-hole!

It's a logical fallacy for a reason.

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Yea people are responsible for their own actions. If a guy blows building and kills a bunch of people it's not because he is Muslim or because he's from the middle east or a Republican or gay or 6 feet tall or whelatever else you you can think of that lumps him in with some group. By your logic everyone of every race religion nationality and political view is a terrorist.

Well then, based upon the polling, Western propaganda is bating 300! A few, comparatively, have high jacked the religion for political gain. The Islamic holy book has directives of violence both within the family, the community and by rules of how and when to wage war, but few contemporary Muslims follow that part, just as the very same and worse can be found in the older pages of the bible, while very few contemporary Christians adhere to it.

300 isn't all that great. Its pretty good but not great.

Montecresto said:

Well then, based upon the polling, Western propaganda is bating 300! A few, comparatively, have high jacked the religion for political gain. The Islamic holy book has directives of violence both within the family, the community and by rules of how and when to wage war, but few contemporary Muslims follow that part, just as the very same and worse can be found in the older pages of the bible, while very few contemporary Christians adhere to it.

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Through no fault of its own, Islam is a relatively young religion, so has not had the chance to adapt with the modern times. Religions like Christianity have had longer to adapt and evolve into more diluted versions of themselves. Therefore it is stronger in its views than most religions of today.

Religion of Peace?

I dunno about that.

But it is definitely - like all major religions IMO - a Waste of Time

Like all religions it has both writings of love, and violence.

US Conservative said:

I didn't say one was better. Its very myopic to blame this on secular society or to put Christianity and Islam on the same plane. The fact that you have to go back 500 years is evidence on its face of being held to a different standard.

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Christianity has spent 500 more years in the west where secular society has had a moderating effect. The same cannot be said of Islam. 500 years ago, Christians were just as much the animals that many Muslims are today. Once they get out of their little myopic Muslim-only world, secular society is having the same moderating effect on Islam that it had on Christianity.

Same standard, different locations.

Kreton said:

Yea people are responsible for their own actions. If a guy blows building and kills a bunch of people it's not because he is Muslim or because he's from the middle east or a Republican or gay or 6 feet tall or whelatever else you you can think of that lumps him in with some group. By your logic everyone of every race religion nationality and political view is a terrorist.

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A person's beliefs inform their actions. If they believe that an imaginary friend in the sky is commanding that they strap on a bomb vest and kill the heretics, then the religion that they follow, the beliefs that they hold, are at least partially responsible for the actions that they take.

Of course, a lot of religious people hate that idea because when someone of their own religion goes crazy and does something evil, they don't want anything to stain the "good name" of their own religion. It's base hypocrisy, but we shouldn't be at all surprised.