View Poll Results: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

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Thread: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

  1. #181
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    True on both counts. However, New Testament teachings often refer back to Old Testament law as handed down by Moses when informing or otherwise instructing new converts that they were no longer bound by "the law". In that, Judaism is closely linked to Christianity. To many, there is no distinction as to the genesis of the Christian faith although the origin of the Christianity began with the birth and subsequent teachings of Christ.
    Christianity is just Judaism 2.0, it is an extension of the religion, using the same god, just a new revelation. In a lot of ways, Islam is just Judaism 3.0, with an even newer revelation. The Bible is very clear that the OT is just as much in force as the NT but since lots of Christians really like a good lobster dinner, they find ways to rationalize their way around it. Heck, the Bible still supports slavery, even in the NT, but they find ways to overlook that as well. You'd think that if God really wanted to, he could have inspired someone in the NT to write down "don't own other people" but he never did.

    I would disagree with you somewhat here. The Quran speaks of peace for believes in God and identifies those believers as "Surely, the Believers (Muslims), and the Jews, and the Christians and the Sabians whichever party from among these truly believes in Allah (God/Jehovah) and the Last Day and does good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve". Now, I would agree that the Quran asks Muslims to "separate themselves from unbelievers" and to "do away with those who would not make a treaty with you", but doesn't Christianity if not nations who practice the Christian faith conduct themselves in much the same way?
    But just like Christians, Muslims find their own convenient reading of their book, they can pick and choose passages to mean just about anything they want them to mean and then other groups of Muslims can do the same thing. That's why you have Sunnis and Shiites. That's why there are 33,000 distinct sects of Christianity. For supposedly inerrant books, they sure don't present a clearly understandable message.

    Christians are to witness to non-believers and "be not of the world". America has aligned itself with Israel and has pledged to defend them against any aggressor. This debate could continue in the religious forum if you wish, but from my readings of both Holy writings we conduct ourselves in similar fashions. The biggest difference is Christianity allows the unsaved and unbelievers to come to God and Christ in their on way in their own time. The only string being repentance. Islam...there's still a lot of legalism...conformity...that comes with it.
    The reason America is on Israel's side is because the crazy evangelical Christians need Israel to be around as a material component for their end-times "Summon Jesus" spell. They don't give a damn about Israel. They want to use it as a means to bring their messiah back. That's just idiotic.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  2. #182
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Sounds like My postings of the last TEN years.
    I've used Every one of these answers to the same Apologism for many times.
    Unfortunately, my fellow atheists are the WORST 'False equivalence/equivocators', Liars for Islam, "every religion is the samers". Perhaps because many are liberal/socialist/etc.
    See immediately above, in fact, since I posted.

    Nice to see it all in one article.

    Sleepwalking Toward Armageddon : Sam Harris
    9/10/2014
    SamHarris.org

    In his speech responding to the horrific murder of journalist James Foley by a British jihadist, President Obama delivered the following rebuke (using an alternate name for ISIS):

    ISIL speaks for no religion… and no faith teaches people to massacre innocents. No just God would stand for what they did yesterday and what they do every single day. ISIL has no ideology of any value to human beings. Their ideology is bankrupt…. we will do everything that we can to protect our people and the timeless values that we stand for. May God bless and keep Jim’s memory. And may God bless the United States of America.

    In his subsequent remarks outlining a strategy to defeat ISIS, the President declared:

    Now let’s make two things clear: ISIL is not Islamic. No religion condones the killing of innocents, and the vast majority of ISIL’s victims have been Muslim…. ISIL is a terrorist organization, pure and simple. And it has no vision other than the slaughter of all who stand in its way…. May God bless our troops, and may God bless the United States of America.

    As an atheist, I cannot help wondering when this scrim of pretense and delusion will be finally burned away—either by the clear light of reason or by a surfeit of horror meted out to innocents by the parties of God. Which will come first, flying cars and vacations to Mars, or a simple acknowledgment that beliefs guide behavior and that certain religious ideas—jihad, martyrdom, blasphemy, apostasy—reliably lead to oppression and murder? It may be true that no faith teaches people to massacre innocents exactly—but innocence, as the President surely knows, is in the eye of the beholder. Are apostates “innocent”? Blasphemers? Polytheists? Islam has the answer, and the answer is “No.”

    More British Muslims have joined the ranks of ISIS than have volunteered to serve in the British armed forces. In fact, this group has managed to attract thousands of recruits from free societies throughout the world to help build a paradise of repression and sectarian slaughter in Syria and Iraq. This is an astonishing phenomenon, and it reveals some very uncomfortable truths about the failures of multiculturalism, the inherent vulnerability of open societies, and the terrifying power of bad ideas.
    No doubt many enlightened concerns will come flooding into the reader’s mind at this point. I would not want to create the impression that most Muslims support ISIS..."

    But a belief in martyrdom, a hatred of infidels, and a commitment to violent jihad are not fringe phenomena in the Muslim world.
    These preoccupations are supported by the Koran and numerous hadith. That is why the popular Saudi cleric Mohammad Al-Areefi sounds like the ISIS army chaplain. The man has 9.5 million followers on Twitter (twice as many as Pope Francis has). If you can find an important distinction between the faith he preaches and that which motivates the savagery of ISIS, you should probably consult a neurologist.

    Understanding and criticizing the doctrine of Islam—and finding some way to inspire Muslims to reform it—is one of the most important challenges the civilized world now faces. But the task isn’t as simple as discrediting the false doctrines of Muslim “extremists,” because most of their views are not false by the light of scripture. A hatred of infidels is arguably the central message of the Koran.

    The reality of martyrdom and the sanctity of armed jihad are about as controversial under Islam as the resurrection of Jesus is under Christianity. It is not an accident that millions of Muslims recite the shahadah or make pilgrimage to Mecca. Neither is it an accident that horrific footage of infidels and apostates being decapitated has become a popular form of pornography throughout the Muslim world. Each of these practices, including this ghastly method of murder, find explicit support in scripture.

    But there is now a large industry of obfuscation designed to protect Muslims from having to grapple with these truths. Our humanities and social science departments are filled with scholars and pseudo-scholars deemed to be experts in terrorism, religion, Islamic jurisprudence, anthropology, political science, and other diverse fields, who claim that where Muslim intolerance and violence are concerned, nothing is ever what it seems.

    Above all, these experts claim that one can’t take Islamists and jihadists at their word: Their incessant declarations about God, paradise, martyrdom, and the evils of apostasy are nothing more than a mask concealing their real motivations. What are their real motivations? Insert here the most abject hopes and projections of secular liberalism:
    How would you feel if Western imperialists and their mapmakers had divided your lands, stolen your oil, and humiliated your proud culture? Devout Muslims merely want what everyone wants—political and economic security, a piece of land to call home, good schools for their children, a little leisure to enjoy the company of friends. Unfortunately, most of my fellow liberals appear to believe this. In fact, to not accept this obscurantism as a deep insight into human nature and immediately avert one’s eyes from the teachings of Islam is considered a form of bigotry.

    In any conversation on this topic, one must continually deploy a firewall of caveats and concessions to irrelevancy:
    "Of course, U.S. foreign policy has problems. Yes, we really must get off oil.
    No, I did not support the war in Iraq. Sure, I’ve read Chomsky. No doubt, the Bible contains equally terrible passages. Yes, I heard about that abortion clinic bombing in 1984. No, I’m sorry to say that Hitler and Stalin were not motivated by atheism.
    The Tamil Tigers? Of course, I’ve heard of them."
    Now can we honestly talk about the link between belief and behavior?"..."
    [..........]
    Last edited by mbig; 09-11-14 at 06:02 PM.
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  3. #183
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    A religion where non-violence, even in self defense, is a tenant of that religion. For example, followers of Jainism won't even eat a root vegetable because the harvest of it kills the plant.
    Yeah, but they eat something, and when they do they are inflicting some sort of violence on some living thing. Of course the level of violence may be negligible, but it is violence. It's impossible to live in this world without inflicting some sort of violence on something.

  4. #184
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    True on both counts. However, New Testament teachings often refer back to Old Testament law as handed down by Moses when informing or otherwise instructing new converts that they were no longer bound by "the law". In that, Judaism is closely linked to Christianity. To many, there is no distinction as to the genesis of the Christian faith although the origin of the Christianity began with the birth and subsequent teachings of Christ.
    The one is a continuation of the other, yes.

    My point was simply that the Mosaic law really did not transfer over between the two. Christ regarded that law as having already served its purpose in most regards, or as having deviated from its intended purpose in some others, and he set a new law in place for that exact reason.

    This is the reason why Christians have never been much for public stoning or avoiding pork, fr instance.

    I would disagree with you somewhat here. The Quran speaks of peace for believes in God and identifies those believers as "Surely, the Believers (Muslims), and the Jews, and the Christians and the Sabians — whichever party from among these truly believes in Allah (God/Jehovah) and the Last Day and does good deeds — shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve". Now, I would agree that the Quran asks Muslims to "separate themselves from unbelievers" and to "do away with those who would not make a treaty with you", but doesn't Christianity if not nations who practice the Christian faith conduct themselves in much the same way?

    Christians are to witness to non-believers and "be not of the world". America has aligned itself with Israel and has pledged to defend them against any aggressor. This debate could continue in the religious forum if you wish, but from my readings of both Holy writings we conduct ourselves in similar fashions. The biggest difference is Christianity allows the unsaved and unbelievers to come to God and Christ in their on way in their own time. The only string being repentance. Islam...there's still a lot of legalism...conformity...that comes with it.
    Ehhh... It's something of a fine distinction, to be honest. The Quran basically contradicts itself.

    Earlier passages, where Mohammad was still building his power base, actually can be rather tolerant and charitable towards people of other faiths. As the book goes on, however, and Mohammad becomes more powerful, he also becomes progressively less and less tolerant, and more violent and bloodthirsty.

    Some of his dying words, for instance, were "May Allah curse the Jews and the Christians, for they built the places of worship at the graves of the prophets."

    The problem where modern Islam is concerned is that, unfortunately, Mohammad's later words and sayings are generally held to carry greater theological weight than his earlier words, as he supposedly grew "closer to God" as he aged.

    As such, if one follows the strict teachings of Muslim theology, Islam really is not a "religion of peace" at all. It is a religion of war and conquest.

    Thankfully, it simply happens to be the case that most Muslims aren't very good at following their religion.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 09-11-14 at 06:34 PM.

  5. #185
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    The one is a continuation of the other, yes.

    My point was simply that the Mosaic law really did not transfer over between the two. Christ regarded that law as having already served its purpose in most regards, or as having deviated from its intended purpose in some others, and he set a new law in place for that exact reason.

    This is the reason why Christians have never been much for public stoning or avoiding pork, fr instance.



    Ehhh... It's something of a fine distinction, to be honest. The Quran basically contradicts itself.

    Earlier passages, where Mohammad was still building his power base, actually can be rather tolerant and charitable towards people of other faiths. As the book goes on, however, and Mohammad becomes more powerful, he also becomes progressively less and less tolerant, and more violent and bloodthirsty.

    Some of his dying words, for instance, were "May Allah curse the Jews and the Christians, for they built the places of worship at the graves of the prophets."

    The problem where modern Islam is concerned is that, unfortunately, Mohammad's later words and sayings are generally held to carry greater theological weight than his earlier words, as he supposedly grew "closer to God" as he aged.

    As such, if one follows the strict teachings of Muslim theology, Islam really is not a "religion of peace" at all. It is a religion of war and conquest.

    Thankfully, it simply happens to be the case that most Muslims aren't very good at following their religion.
    By the same token, many Christians (myself included) wouldn't be said to hold a strict adherence to the Christian faith either. I mean, if you really followed Christianity to the letter none of us who call ourselves "Christians" would measure up. What makes me "worthy," however, is that even if I mess up I can acknowledge my mistake (seek forgiveness) and try my level best never to repeat that particular mistake (sin) again (repent).

    As to the Mohammad and his teachings over the course of his life, I'd say I agree with your assessment about him. In my brief study of him, I've pretty much come away with the same conclusion. That said, I see the subversion of the Islamic faith today as not too dissimilar from early Judeo-Christians during the Mosaic period. I'm sure the world was just as frightening for Believers and non-Believers on both sides back then as it is now. To me, the problem with Islam is both the ritualism and the strict adherence to old ways that portray the faith as the pathway to enlightenment and a closer relationship with God/Allah. Frankly, I don't need to pray at specific times throughout the day to be closer to God or strengthen my relationship with Him. And while I understand the unity aspect of any religion, I really don't need to worship in a group to experience the joy of my faith. If God is with me (and I'm sure He is), He's with me no matter where I go....or don't go.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 09-12-14 at 09:29 PM.
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  6. #186
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Yes?
    No?
    Yes and no?
    Something else?

    Please give some thoughts behind your conclusion.

    Bonus question: In your opinion, why did Bush II go out of his way to refer to it as such after 9/11? Do you think he actually believed it? Do you think he was trying to keep people (us and them) calm?
    It is a religion of peace that strives to that goal through violence...
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  7. #187
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    No religion is a religion of peace. Religion thrives on ignorance and proselytization.

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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    It is a religion of peace that strives to that goal through violence...
    You can't say that!

  9. #189
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    You can't say that!
    What? Why?
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    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    What? Why?
    Because leftists will be enraged.

    We have to pretend everyone is suspect.

    We can't admit we know where the problems lie, buddy.

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