View Poll Results: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

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Thread: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

  1. #141
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    We were discussing ideological extremists. Black book of communism says 100 million were KILLED last century because of that. Seems pertinent.
    I was talking religious ideological extremists and that was the context of my comment. Again, your generalizing the context doesn't make my comment inaccurate. You were attacking a straw man, and continue to do so.

    On top of that, Islamism consists not just of a religion but also a legal and political code as well.
    No more than Christianity inherently does. There are simply many countries that base their government heavily on the religious ideas. But Islam is practiced in a great many countries that don't have government and legal codes based on the teachings. Simple logic thus dictates that legal and political codes are not a requirement of the religion.

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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Mittner View Post
    I was talking religious ideological extremists and that was the context of my comment. Again, your generalizing the context doesn't make my comment inaccurate. You were attacking a straw man, and continue to do so.



    No more than Christianity inherently does. There are simply many countries that base their government heavily on the religious ideas. But Islam is practiced in a great many countries that don't have government and legal codes based on the teachings. Simple logic thus dictates that legal and political codes are not a requirement of the religion.
    Western values dont just stem out of Christianity, although it is a portion. Greek, Roman, Jewish, French, and British are also highly influential. But I dont see Christian courts and Christian laws being violently imposed on anybody in the modern era.

    Stop defensing the throwback that is islamism. Its not the same, and thats obvious.

  3. #143
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Why do you keep ignoring the violence in Africa? Groups exactly like ISIS who want to implement the exact same kind of society (except Christian instead of Muslim) are doing the exact same thing. The only difference is that it's a lot of little ones instead of one big one. It's been going on, pretty much nonstop, for at least a century. These are the most devout Christian countries in the world, where they take scripture quite literally and follow it as exactly as possible. Just like fundamentalist Muslims do.

    I don't understand the pathological hatred some people have for Islam. Is it the cultural rivalry that Europe had with the Middle East for so long? Can't you realize that your religions and the worldviews they promote are almost identical? You only spend a moment trying to deny the violence in India, but we can chalk that up to just plain old ignorance. It's sad that you aren't any better than they are. I wish you were. But the facts show that, in a country where religion is unchecked, Christianity is just as brutal and cruel as Islam and Hinduism are. Judaism probably would be, too, since it preaches the same repressive tenants.
    The issue isn't whether or not every religion has their extremist Pasch, but to the scale and the lengths they will go with to carry out their intolerance. Of course you are going to find crazies in every religion. Look at the Westboro Baptist Church guy after all who goes out to burns Korans and protest Robin Williams funeral. And yes it is true in Africa that people like him can find an audience who will listen, say in Nigera when it comes to LGBT rights. But say what you will about that, we don't have to worry about Nigerian Christians, or Christians in general, bombing the gay pride parade in San Francisco now do we? And God forbid in the event such an attack should occur, you would find unanimous condemnation from Christians around the world should it happened.

    The problem with Islam, and why it is a bigger threat and at this moment more violent, is because the same cannot be said about Muslims, whether in part or whole. Even if we're not talking about the tens of thousands that have fought for radical jihad, there are many millions more that either condone, or support such action. Let's just pretend for a moment that only 10-15% (which is the most conservative estimate I've seen) support radical Jihad.... that is still almost 200 million people that don't have a problem blowing you or I up, just because we're not Muslim. This sort of thinking is unique to Islam, and you will not find it in the Christian community, or any other religious ones. Hell, people tell jokes about Christians all the time and know they don't have to worry someone might kill them or their family. We can't say the same thing about Islam can we?

    You know the most laughable thing about your post was? When you stated whether it was the "cultural" rivalry was between Europe and the Middle East that was why so many people hated Islam. I think it probably had more to do with this:

    * United States September 11, 2001 – 4 planes hijacked by 19 al-Qaeda hijackers: two planes crashed into World Trade Center and one into the The Pentagon. Nearly 3000 dead.[5]
    * Indonesia August 5, 2003 – 2003 Marriott Hotel bombing in Mega Kuningan, South Jakarta, Indonesia; suicide bomber detonated a car bomb outside the JW Marriott Jakarta lobby, killing 12 and injuring 150
    * Spain March 11, 2004 – Madrid train bombings, killed 191 people and wounded 1,800.[6][7]
    * Indonesia September 9, 2004 – 2004 Australian Embassy bombing in Jakarta, Indonesia; suicide bomber exploded a one-tonne car bomb, which was packed into a small Daihatsu delivery van, outside the Australian embassy at Kuningan District, South Jakarta killing 9 and injuring over 150
    * United Kingdom July 7, 2005 – Multiple bombings in London Underground. 53 killed by four suicide bombers. Nearly 700 injured.
    * Egypt July 23, 2005 – Bomb attacks at Sharm el-Sheikh, an Egyptian resort city, at least 64 people killed.
    * United Kingdom February 1, 2007 – The 2007 plot to behead a British Muslim soldier – A group of British Pakistanis in Birmingham, England planned to kidnap and behead a British Muslim soldier in order to undermine the morale of the British Army and inhibit recruitment of Muslims.[8]
    * India September 13, 2008 – Bombing series in Delhi, India. Pakistani extremist groups plant bombs at several places including India Gate, out of which the ones at Karol Bagh, Connaught Place and Greater Kailash explode leaving around 30 people dead and 130 injured, followed by another attack two weeks later at the congested Mehrauli area, leaving 3 people dead.
    * India November 26, 2008 – Muslim extremists kill at least 166 people and wound numerous others in a series of coordinated attacks on India's financial capital, Mumbai. The government of India blamed Pakistan based militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba and stated that the terrorists killed/caught were citizens of Pakistan, a claim which the Pakistani government first refused but then accepted when given proof. Ajmal Kasab, one of the terrorists, was caught alive.[9][10]
    * Somalia June 18, 2009 – 2009 Beledweyne bombing by Al-Shabaab. 35 dead.
    * United States May 1, 2010 – 2010 Times Square car bombing attempt, New York, New York, USA. Faisal Shahzad, an Islamic Pakistani American who received an American citizenship in December 2009, attempted to detonate a car bomb in Times Square working with the Pakistani Taliban or Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan.
    * Pakistan May 28, 2010 – Attacks on Ahmadi Mosques Lahore, Pakistan. Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan claimed attacks on two mosques simultaneously belonging to the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, killing nearly 100 and injuring many others.[11]
    * Sweden December 10, 2010 – 2010 Stockholm bombing, Sweden. killing the bomber and injuring two people.
    * China July 18, 2011 – 2011 Hotan attack, Hotan, China. A group of 18 young Uyghur men who opposed the local government's campaign against the full-face Islamic veil perpetrated a series of coordinated bomb and knife attacks and occupied a police station on Nuerbage Street, killing two security guards and taking eight hostages. The attackers yelled religious slogans, including ones associated with Jihadism.
    * Iraq 23 February 2012 Iraq attacks, Baghdad, Iraq by Islamic State of Iraq. 83 dead, 250+ injured.
    * Iraq 20 March 2012 Iraq attacks, Baghdad and at least 9 other cities, Iraq. 52 dead, ~ 250 injured.
    * United States April 15, 2013. – Boston Marathon bombings. Two brothers, Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnev, planted two bombs near the finish line of the Boston Marathon. The blast killed 3 and injured 183 others.[12]
    * United Kingdom May 22, 2013 – Two men with cleavers kill British soldier Lee Rigby in Woolwich.[13][14]
    * Kenya September 21, 2013 - Westgate shopping mall attack, 67 killed, 175 wounded.[15][16][17]
    * Pakistan September 22, 2013 - Peshawar church attack, 80-83 killed, 250 wounded.

    The proceeding is by no means an exhaustive list, but should easily demonstrate that the reason for the "hatred" has nothing to do with some nebulous cultural rivalry, but because of the thousands of innocent lives lost. And before you make some snide comment about Iraq, take a close look at that list; you'll realize there are even countries on that list that opposed the Iraq War. I'll admit, I wish lived in your world though, the idea that no religion is more dangerous than another, but the reality just isn't the case. In 2013 alone, 11,952 terrorist attacks resulted in 22,178 fatalities (including perpetrator deaths) and 37,529 injuries across 91 countries. The top eight deadliest groups were all Muslim.

    Perhaps the real question should be, what is your pathological need to dismiss the threat that is so obvious to everyone else?

  4. #144
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah; the problme with Islam in that respect, is that it is fostered by sectarian governments in the ME. That's how these violent fundamentalist groups effectively get permission to go these rants. We see it in the extreme of ISIS right now. People by and large however; especially the Chrisitan right who see Islam the way Hitler saw the Jews, forget oh so conviently that this country was started as a secular society for just that very reason. That before our country was founded, sectarianism literally ruled through direct and genocidal war, both in Great Britain and the continent from the middle ages up through the 1998 Northern Ireland Peace Accord. So Christians have absolutely no room to talk about fundamentalist Islam.

    The problem gets compounded when secular governments, like Assad's and Hussein's are for all intenents and purposes , set up and guided by western secular forces that are seen by the average people as emperialist interloping: think The British Empire, French occupation - Vietnam and Lebanon and Algeria and then of course comes American commercial interests, which the government labels - national interests... When the natives, of course, pitch a bitch about this kind of thing, they are brutally put down, ala the Shah of Iran, Assad and Hussein; ala el Salvadore, Honduras etc etc. I thnk that Ho chi Mihn's success as a nationalist, beating first the French and then of course The American Giants, bolstered these fundamentalists and guess what? it's working for them! It won't last long because of the way that they operate, but the IRA for one, showed them that this terrorist stuff not only sends a message, but can lead to a(n) (Irish) Free State! So why should they listen to US?

    Then of course we come to the plantation of the Israeli - sectarian state / zion. That's another mess, that because of our very heavily one sided policies has dug our hole even deeper over there. I truly fear for Israel. We have ourselves to thank for it, so how many more American lives are going to be poured into this BS before we get smart and just walk away?
    What ?
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    What ?
    Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?-kool-jpg
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    The issue isn't whether or not every religion has their extremist Pasch, but to the scale and the lengths they will go with to carry out their intolerance. Of course you are going to find crazies in every religion. Look at the Westboro Baptist Church guy after all who goes out to burns Korans and protest Robin Williams funeral. And yes it is true in Africa that people like him can find an audience who will listen, say in Nigera when it comes to LGBT rights. But say what you will about that, we don't have to worry about Nigerian Christians, or Christians in general, bombing the gay pride parade in San Francisco now do we? And God forbid in the event such an attack should occur, you would find unanimous condemnation from Christians around the world should it happened.

    The problem with Islam, and why it is a bigger threat and at this moment more violent, is because the same cannot be said about Muslims, whether in part or whole. Even if we're not talking about the tens of thousands that have fought for radical jihad, there are many millions more that either condone, or support such action. Let's just pretend for a moment that only 10-15% (which is the most conservative estimate I've seen) support radical Jihad.... that is still almost 200 million people that don't have a problem blowing you or I up, just because we're not Muslim. This sort of thinking is unique to Islam, and you will not find it in the Christian community, or any other religious ones. Hell, people tell jokes about Christians all the time and know they don't have to worry someone might kill them or their family. We can't say the same thing about Islam can we?
    I don't fear that kind of violence for two reasons. First, we don't live in a Christian country. We live in a secular country. Our nation has a secular government, secular values, and most of its people base their ideas on secular reality. Even the people who run around screaming about how Christian (or Muslim, or Jewish) they are, are pretty secular people. Second, the really serious Christians of this world, the ones in Africa and parts of South America, or the oft-cited tiny groups who meet in houses for fear of persecution in China, are completely powerless to hurt me. They would if given the chance, I'm sure. But the reason that violent Islamic groups can enact this kind of violence (which is almost completely NOT directed against Americans at home) is because they also have lots of oil and money. Not because of some kind of difference in the ideology. It's the same ideology. Both religions copied it from Judaism, which started out with a pretty horrible ideology. Hinduism seems to have come up with it on its own.

    Let's talk about the ones who condone that you've mentioned. How many Christians in this country condoned the deaths of millions of Iraqis in the last decade? How many condone the deaths of Palestinian children every single day? How many did you condone? Do you even know that you did? You seem completely obvious to even the idea that your side does evil things, let alone recognize when it happens.
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Oh how wrong you are, I'm not even sure where to start....

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I don't fear that kind of violence for two reasons. First, we don't live in a Christian country. We live in a secular country. Our nation has a secular government, secular values, and most of its people base their ideas on secular reality. Even the people who run around screaming about how Christian (or Muslim, or Jewish) they are, are pretty secular people. Second, the really serious Christians of this world, the ones in Africa and parts of South America, or the oft-cited tiny groups who meet in houses for fear of persecution in China, are completely powerless to hurt me. They would if given the chance, I'm sure. But the reason that violent Islamic groups can enact this kind of violence (which is almost completely NOT directed against Americans at home) is because they also have lots of oil and money. Not because of some kind of difference in the ideology. It's the same ideology. Both religions copied it from Judaism, which started out with a pretty horrible ideology. Hinduism seems to have come up with it on its own.
    Oh you are sure they would hurt you hmm? Why? What has a Christian ever done to you personally that would lead you to believe they would drop everything and decide to kill you? You do realize that this country is 90% Judeo Christian right? There's been plenty of opportunities for someone to blow you up (or anyone else for that matter) before now if that's something they really wanted. And I hate to tell you, but it doesn't take a whole lot of "oil and money" (I'd love you to show me just where the Al-Qaeda oil fields are, or Al Shabaab for that matter) to commit these acts. Remember the Boston Marathon bombing? That was done with a pressure cooker and a bunch of junk you find at your local hardware store. Clearly, money isn't an issue for them to cause mayhem. Again you are wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Let's talk about the ones who condone that you've mentioned. How many Christians in this country condoned the deaths of millions of Iraqis in the last decade? How many condone the deaths of Palestinian children every single day? How many did you condone? Do you even know that you did? You seem completely obvious to even the idea that your side does evil things, let alone recognize when it happens.
    And there you go, walking right into my trap so easily. As I mentioned in my previous post, it isn't only the United States or the West that has been the victim of Islamic terrorist attacks. China didn't support the invasion of Iraq and have been anti-Israel, did that stop 8 muslims from killing 29 and injuring 140 more? Or what about in Indonesia, a country you like to champion for Muslim peace, remember the Jakarta Bombings? And what about Pakistan? Hundreds have died there from radical muslim attacks, including last year when a church was blown up, killing 80 and injuring 250 more.

    This is why Islam is so great a threat, is because it isn't one that is just content in attacking the West, but anyone who opposes their radical ideology, no matter their political support for Iraq or Israel.

    And that is what we call:

    Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?-check_mate_169-jpg

  8. #148
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    No beer.
    No bacon.
    No pork chops.
    Multiple wives.
    Multiple mothers in law.
    No Christmas.

    Would you be peaceful?

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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    No beer.
    No bacon.
    No pork chops.
    Multiple wives.
    Multiple mothers in law.
    No Christmas.

    Would you be peaceful?
    If I had several wives, I can imagine I'd be quite chilled.

  10. #150
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Can you expand on that and maybe give some examples? Simply stating 'no' based on watching the news is utterly unconvincing.
    Why should I expand upon something that has been addressed ad nauseam? No need to waste the time posting it. There are better topics to debate and post about
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