View Poll Results: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

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Thread: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

  1. #121
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    The certifiable psychopath who founded the religion, perhaps?



    Quote me where, precisely, it is said in either the Old or New Testament that all Christians and Jews have the universal right and moral prerogative to kill, enslave, or forcibly convert all people of other religions.

    I'll be waiting.
    (Exodus 22:19 NAB) They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

    (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB) Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.

    (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.
    Just a few I can remember off the top of my head. There are many more.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  2. #122
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    I think Mohammed was a genius- Islam as a concept is logically sound since there is only one god and he shrewdly made himself the last prophet of it. On the other hand, the ones who created christianity by committee ended up making that religion full of holes in its logic (like there is supposedly only one god but all of a sudden that god has a son who also happens to be the same god, huh? etc.) thus making it inevitable that another religion that would finally fix that flawed logic (namely Islam) would be created and begin gaining converts rapidly... it was the very weakness of christianity (since the early christians already started fighting with each other in regards to differing dogmas due to the lack of logic of the core tenents as explain above) that gave rise to Islam.
    That's historically inaccurate

    First off, Mohammed was illiterate, he didn't know how to read or write.
    Secondly, Islam didn't start in a Christian area.
    If you look at Christianity in the 6th century or in the 7th century, it had gone down as far as Ethiopia, but it didn't even enter the arabian peninsula. So the arabian peninsula was completely Christianity-free. Maybe merchants that would travel from Byzantium and ethiopia but the vast majority of people living there had no idea of something called "christian" because most people back then were farmers and farmers don't travel a whole lot. So they didn't know that Christianity existed and those that did, knew very little of it. Which means that to go about saying you're it, you're the final prophet from a christian background meant nothing.

    Thirdly, say that what i said earlier was wrong, the reality was that if the arabic peninsula, the knowledge of Christianity was widespread and known, even though it wasn't, among the population, they would have been exposed to Byzantine christianity, which was not ridden with wars or conflicts within it since it was under imperial control and the emperor didn't want trouble from the church. Moreover, the only real rebellion to make the headlines as it were, was the iconoclast rebellion... well, not really a rebellion... but that was the only thing that troubled the bynzatine empire. But that was in the VIIIth century. So long after mohammed.

    Finally, the koran was written after mohammed's death. Much like the bible as we know it today was put together in the IVth century in the byzantine empire in Nichaea.

  3. #123
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    He was a "genius" is roughly the same sense that someone like Hitler or L. Ron Hubbard were. I'll certainly grant you that much.

    He knew how to effectively craft and market an idea that was appealing to the masses of his era, while simultaneously empowering and enriching himself beyond all reason.

    I would disagree that Christianity is fundamentally untenable, however. The simple fact of the matter is that we know only so much about God as God himself has chosen to reveal.

    God, if he exists at all, reveals such knowledge in his own good time.
    Well in regards to gaining power and influence, Adolf and L Ron didnt do too badly did they?

  4. #124
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    That's historically inaccurate

    First off, Mohammed was illiterate, he didn't know how to read or write.
    Secondly, Islam didn't start in a Christian area.
    If you look at Christianity in the 6th century or in the 7th century, it had gone down as far as Ethiopia, but it didn't even enter the arabian peninsula. So the arabian peninsula was completely Christianity-free. Maybe merchants that would travel from Byzantium and ethiopia but the vast majority of people living there had no idea of something called "christian" because most people back then were farmers and farmers don't travel a whole lot. So they didn't know that Christianity existed and those that did, knew very little of it. Which means that to go about saying you're it, you're the final prophet from a christian background meant nothing.

    Thirdly, say that what i said earlier was wrong, the reality was that if the arabic peninsula, the knowledge of Christianity was widespread and known, even though it wasn't, among the population, they would have been exposed to Byzantine christianity, which was not ridden with wars or conflicts within it since it was under imperial control and the emperor didn't want trouble from the church. Moreover, the only real rebellion to make the headlines as it were, was the iconoclast rebellion... well, not really a rebellion... but that was the only thing that troubled the bynzatine empire. But that was in the VIIIth century. So long after mohammed.

    Finally, the koran was written after mohammed's death. Much like the bible as we know it today was put together in the IVth century in the byzantine empire in Nichaea.
    I never said Islam started in a predominantly christian area, Im saying Islam had a better logic system that allowed it to flourish. And like christianity, Islam started out as an oral tradition so when the Koran was written is largely immaterial since the core logic was already established.

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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Just a few I can remember off the top of my head. There are many more.
    Okay. First off, Exodus 22:19 doesn't say that.

    Exodus 22:19

    “Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal is to be put to death."

    Secondly, where Deuteronomy and Chronicles are concerned:

    A) Those apply only to the Jewish people's efforts to police themselves, not other peoples.

    B) While I will not defend them, it should be noted that these passages were ultimately superseded by Christ's teachings in the New Testament.

    At worst, all your examples demonstrate here is that ancient Judaism was rather draconian when it came to enforcing religious conformity. Christianity, as derived from the New Testament, at least, is not.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 09-07-14 at 02:41 AM.

  6. #126
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    A person's beliefs inform their actions. If they believe that an imaginary friend in the sky is commanding that they strap on a bomb vest and kill the heretics, then the religion that they follow, the beliefs that they hold, are at least partially responsible for the actions that they take.

    Of course, a lot of religious people hate that idea because when someone of their own religion goes crazy and does something evil, they don't want anything to stain the "good name" of their own religion. It's base hypocrisy, but we shouldn't be at all surprised.
    How many people have died at the hands of conservatives? White people? Atheists? People named John? You You're looking to blame religion because of some idiotic belief you have about religion. There are billions of Muslims Christians Jews Hindus and whatever other religion you are blaming who aren't terrorists.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Well in regards to gaining power and influence, Adolf and L Ron didnt do too badly did they?
    Credit where credit is due. I won't deny that the man had certain skills.

  8. #128
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    That's historically inaccurate

    First off, Mohammed was illiterate, he didn't know how to read or write.
    Secondly, Islam didn't start in a Christian area.
    If you look at Christianity in the 6th century or in the 7th century, it had gone down as far as Ethiopia, but it didn't even enter the arabian peninsula. So the arabian peninsula was completely Christianity-free. Maybe merchants that would travel from Byzantium and ethiopia but the vast majority of people living there had no idea of something called "christian" because most people back then were farmers and farmers don't travel a whole lot. So they didn't know that Christianity existed and those that did, knew very little of it. Which means that to go about saying you're it, you're the final prophet from a christian background meant nothing.

    Thirdly, say that what i said earlier was wrong, the reality was that if the arabic peninsula, the knowledge of Christianity was widespread and known, even though it wasn't, among the population, they would have been exposed to Byzantine christianity, which was not ridden with wars or conflicts within it since it was under imperial control and the emperor didn't want trouble from the church. Moreover, the only real rebellion to make the headlines as it were, was the iconoclast rebellion... well, not really a rebellion... but that was the only thing that troubled the bynzatine empire. But that was in the VIIIth century. So long after mohammed.

    Finally, the koran was written after mohammed's death. Much like the bible as we know it today was put together in the IVth century in the byzantine empire in Nichaea.
    On "most people being farmers"-that was not true in the arabian peninsula. Too dry. Most were sheep/goat herders or worked in specific trades. Same with the locals of other religions.

  9. #129
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Okay. First off, Exodus 22:19 doesn't say that.


    Secondly, where Deuteronomy and Chronicles are concerned:

    A) Those apply only to the Jewish people's efforts to police themselves, not other peoples.

    B) While I will not defend them, it should be noted that these passages were ultimately superseded by Christ's teachings in the New Testament.

    At worst, all your examples demonstrate here is that ancient Judaism was rather draconian when it came to enforcing religious conformity. Christianity, as derived from the New Testament, at least, is not.
    Exodus 22:19... sorry... copied the wrong passage reference.. that was 2 Chronicles 15:13..

    And that's great you will not defend them. Just proves you pick and choose your beliefs and don't read biblical texts literally. You are one step closer to the truth in believing that biblical texts are a work of fiction.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  10. #130
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    Re: Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Exodus 22:19... sorry... copied the wrong passage reference.. that was 2 Chronicles 15:13..

    And that's great you will not defend them. Just proves you pick and choose your beliefs and don't read biblical texts literally. You are one step closer to the truth in believing that biblical texts are a work of fiction.
    To the contrary, I do take those passages literally, simply because there is really no other way to take them but "literally." I'm simply saying that they are not terribly relevant.

    Christ, a man who may have very well been God on Earth, if you take him at his word, cast them aside, and so too have the last 100 generations of his followers. There's simply no cause to pay the passages in question much mind from a Christian perspective for that exact reason.

    Whether the Jews have done so as well, I couldn't say. I'm not terribly familiar with the Talmud, Torah, or any other Jewish works past the Old Testament.

    What I can say with regard to Islam, however, is that the exact opposite is the case. The latest, and most relevant, parts of the Quran are those which advocate the most violence and bloodshed.

    To my knowledge, no later work has ever changed this either. As a matter of fact, many of them have made it worse.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 09-07-14 at 03:23 AM.

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