View Poll Results: What is the War in Ukraine about?

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  • Freedom and Democracy!

    2 5.13%
  • Big Energy and Big Profits!

    10 25.64%
  • Russian Imperialism!

    27 69.23%
  • USA Imperialism!

    3 7.69%
  • NWO Corporate Imperialism!

    5 12.82%
  • Autonomy for Ethnic Russian Ukrainians!

    12 30.77%
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Thread: What is the War in Ukraine about?

  1. #1
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    What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Click the link and read the entire article-best choice
    http://consortiumnews.com/2014/09/03...kraine-crisis/
    "The Whys Behind the Ukraine Crisis
    Exclusive:
    Given the very high stakes of a nuclear confrontation with Russia, some analysts wonder what’s the real motive for taking this extraordinary risk over Ukraine. Is it about natural gas, protection of the U.S. dollar’s dominance, or an outgrowth of neocon extremism, asks Robert Parry."
    "By Robert ParryA senior U.S. diplomat told me recently that if Russia were to occupy all of Ukraine and even neighboring Belarus that there would be zero impact on U.S. national interests. The diplomat wasn’t advocating that, of course, but was noting the curious reality that Official Washington’s current war hysteria over Ukraine doesn’t connect to genuine security concerns.
    So why has so much of the Washington Establishment – from prominent government officials to all the major media pundits – devoted so much time this past year to pounding their chests over the need to confront Russia regarding Ukraine? Who is benefiting from this eminently avoidable – yet extremely dangerous – crisis? What’s driving the madness?"snip
    "
    Plus, if “democracy promotion” were the real motive, there were obviously better ways to achieve it. Democratically elected President Viktor Yanukovych pledged on Feb. 21 – in an agreement guaranteed by three European nations – to surrender much of his power and hold early elections so he could be voted out of office if the people wanted.
    However, on Feb. 22, the agreement was brushed aside as neo-Nazi militias stormed presidential buildings and forced Yanukovych and other officials to flee for their lives. Rather than stand behind the Feb. 21 arrangement, the U.S. State Department quickly endorsed the coup regime that emerged as “legitimate” and the mainstream U.S. press dutifully demonized Yanukovych by noting, for instance, that a house being built for him had a pricy sauna."snip
    "
    In the Ukraine case, the temptation has been to think that Moscow – hit with escalating economic sanctions – will back down even as the EU and U.S. energy interests seize control of eastern Ukraine’s energy reserves. The fracking could mean both a financial bonanza to investors and an end to Russia’s dominance of the natural gas supplies feeding central and eastern Europe. So the economic and geopolitical payoff could be substantial.
    According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, Ukraine has Europe’s third-largest shale gas reserves at 42 trillion cubic feet, an inviting target especially since other European nations, such as Britain, Poland, France and Bulgaria, have resisted fracking technology because of environmental concerns. An economically supine Ukraine would presumably be less able to say no."snip
    "As Time magazine reported, “Leiter’s involvement in the firm rounds out a power-packed team of politically-connected Americans that also includes a second new board member, Devon Archer, a Democratic bundler and former adviser to John Kerry’s 2004 presidential campaign. Both Archer and Hunter Biden have worked as business partners with Kerry’s son-in-law, Christopher Heinz, the founding partner of Rosemont Capital, a private-equity company.”snip
    "
    There’s also the issue of Russia’s interest in exploring with China and other emerging economies the possibility of escaping the financial hegemony of the U.S. dollar, a move that could seriously threaten American economic dominance. According to this line of thinking, the U.S. and its close allies need to bring Moscow to its geopolitical knees – where it was under the late Boris Yeltsin – to stop any experimentation with other currencies for global trade.
    Again, the advocates for this theory have a point. Protecting the Mighty Dollar is of utmost importance to Wall Street. The financial cataclysm of a potential ouster of the U.S. dollar as the world’s benchmark currency might understandably prompt some powerful people to play a dangerous game of chicken with nuclear-armed Russia.
    Of course, there’s also the budgetary interest of NATO and the U.S. “military-industrial complex” (which helps fund many of Washington’s “think tanks”) to hype every propaganda opportunity to scare the American people about the “Russian threat.”snip
    "Your many friends in the mainstream U.S. news media begin to relentlessly demonize Putin with a propaganda barrage that would do a totalitarian state proud. The anti-Putin ‘group think’ is near total and any accusation – regardless of the absence of facts – is fine.”
    Yet, by risking a potential nuclear confrontation with Russia — the equivalent of the old lady swallowing a horse – the neocons have moved beyond what can be described in a children’s ditty. It has become more like a global version of Israel’s “Samson Option,” the readiness to use nuclear weapons in a self-destructive commitment to eliminate your enemies whatever the cost to yourself.
    But what is particularly shocking in this case is how virtually everyone in U.S. officialdom – and across the mainstream media spectrum – has bought into this madness."

    Is this a scheme to get Eastern Ukraine Gas into the pipeline?
    Is this a Big Energy agenda item?
    Is there any democracy involved here?
    How is it so many US political connections are in the Gas business with Ukrainian billionaires?
    Will this fire up the Cold War to the benefit of the Military/Industrial/Corporate complex?
    Interesting that this info didn't make Mainstream Media in the USA?
    Last edited by DaveFagan; 09-04-14 at 09:57 PM.

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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Big Oil and Big Profits as part of Russian Imperialism. The "ethnic" Russian speakers are just an excuse for Putin. It is also a part of the Russian Imperialism in that Russia wanted the Crimea and now they need a land bridge to protect that port which is the ONLY warm water port Russia has. Putin wants Russia to regain it's territory that was either given away or lost by the Czars and the Soviet Union. That's part of why you heard Putin refer to Novorussiya (New Russia) the other day.

    This has a lot more to do with Imperialism and less to do with corporate profits, no matter what the anti-capitalists and conspiracy theorists believe. In Russia, the corporations are still pretty much the financial pipeline for the government.

    More territory, more resources, more profits, more government, more military which can garner more territory. And thus the cycle continues. Imperialism...

    This is the first time since WWII that one country seized part of another country by force. It started in the Crimea, has moved to the eastern provinces of the Ukraine, and next will be parts or the Balkans and parts of the Baltic states. If the latter happens, NATO will get involved. As for the Ukraine - Obama told them in his Estonia speech, that they are on their own, when he said that the Ukraine has no military answer. Ukraine is now Novorussiya - as Putin just declared.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Click the link and read the entire article-best choice
    The Whys Behind the Ukraine Crisis | Consortiumnews
    "The Whys Behind the Ukraine Crisis
    Exclusive:
    Given the very high stakes of a nuclear confrontation with Russia, some analysts wonder what’s the real motive for taking this extraordinary risk over Ukraine. Is it about natural gas, protection of the U.S. dollar’s dominance, or an outgrowth of neocon extremism, asks Robert Parry."
    "By Robert ParryA senior U.S. diplomat told me recently that if Russia were to occupy all of Ukraine and even neighboring Belarus that there would be zero impact on U.S. national interests. The diplomat wasn’t advocating that, of course, but was noting the curious reality that Official Washington’s current war hysteria over Ukraine doesn’t connect to genuine security concerns.
    So why has so much of the Washington Establishment – from prominent government officials to all the major media pundits – devoted so much time this past year to pounding their chests over the need to confront Russia regarding Ukraine? Who is benefiting from this eminently avoidable – yet extremely dangerous – crisis? What’s driving the madness?"snip
    "
    Plus, if “democracy promotion” were the real motive, there were obviously better ways to achieve it. Democratically elected President Viktor Yanukovych pledged on Feb. 21 – in an agreement guaranteed by three European nations – to surrender much of his power and hold early elections so he could be voted out of office if the people wanted.
    However, on Feb. 22, the agreement was brushed aside as neo-Nazi militias stormed presidential buildings and forced Yanukovych and other officials to flee for their lives. Rather than stand behind the Feb. 21 arrangement, the U.S. State Department quickly endorsed the coup regime that emerged as “legitimate” and the mainstream U.S. press dutifully demonized Yanukovych by noting, for instance, that a house being built for him had a pricy sauna."snip
    "
    In the Ukraine case, the temptation has been to think that Moscow – hit with escalating economic sanctions – will back down even as the EU and U.S. energy interests seize control of eastern Ukraine’s energy reserves. The fracking could mean both a financial bonanza to investors and an end to Russia’s dominance of the natural gas supplies feeding central and eastern Europe. So the economic and geopolitical payoff could be substantial.
    According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, Ukraine has Europe’s third-largest shale gas reserves at 42 trillion cubic feet, an inviting target especially since other European nations, such as Britain, Poland, France and Bulgaria, have resisted fracking technology because of environmental concerns. An economically supine Ukraine would presumably be less able to say no."snip
    "As Time magazine reported, “Leiter’s involvement in the firm rounds out a power-packed team of politically-connected Americans that also includes a second new board member, Devon Archer, a Democratic bundler and former adviser to John Kerry’s 2004 presidential campaign. Both Archer and Hunter Biden have worked as business partners with Kerry’s son-in-law, Christopher Heinz, the founding partner of Rosemont Capital, a private-equity company.”snip
    "
    There’s also the issue of Russia’s interest in exploring with China and other emerging economies the possibility of escaping the financial hegemony of the U.S. dollar, a move that could seriously threaten American economic dominance. According to this line of thinking, the U.S. and its close allies need to bring Moscow to its geopolitical knees – where it was under the late Boris Yeltsin – to stop any experimentation with other currencies for global trade.
    Again, the advocates for this theory have a point. Protecting the Mighty Dollar is of utmost importance to Wall Street. The financial cataclysm of a potential ouster of the U.S. dollar as the world’s benchmark currency might understandably prompt some powerful people to play a dangerous game of chicken with nuclear-armed Russia.
    Of course, there’s also the budgetary interest of NATO and the U.S. “military-industrial complex” (which helps fund many of Washington’s “think tanks”) to hype every propaganda opportunity to scare the American people about the “Russian threat.”snip
    "Your many friends in the mainstream U.S. news media begin to relentlessly demonize Putin with a propaganda barrage that would do a totalitarian state proud. The anti-Putin ‘group think’ is near total and any accusation – regardless of the absence of facts – is fine.”
    Yet, by risking a potential nuclear confrontation with Russia — the equivalent of the old lady swallowing a horse – the neocons have moved beyond what can be described in a children’s ditty. It has become more like a global version of Israel’s “Samson Option,” the readiness to use nuclear weapons in a self-destructive commitment to eliminate your enemies whatever the cost to yourself.
    But what is particularly shocking in this case is how virtually everyone in U.S. officialdom – and across the mainstream media spectrum – has bought into this madness."

    Is this a scheme to get Eastern Ukraine Gas into the pipeline?
    Is this a Big Energy agenda item?
    Is there any democracy involved here?
    How is it so many US political connections are in the Gas business with Ukrainian billionaires?
    Will this fire up the Cold War to the benefit of the Military/Industrial/Corporate complex?
    Interesting that this info didn't make Mainstream Media in the USA?
    An excellent article. Those that disagree will throw up the conspiracy flag, but that's always a hide behind. Conspiracies such as the most recent Western backed coup in Ukraine are common place.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  4. #4
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Big Oil and Big Profits as part of Russian Imperialism. The "ethnic" Russian speakers are just an excuse for Putin. It is also a part of the Russian Imperialism in that Russia wanted the Crimea and now they need a land bridge to protect that port which is the ONLY warm water port Russia has. Putin wants Russia to regain it's territory that was either given away or lost by the Czars and the Soviet Union. That's part of why you heard Putin refer to Novorussiya (New Russia) the other day.

    This has a lot more to do with Imperialism and less to do with corporate profits, no matter what the anti-capitalists and conspiracy theorists believe. In Russia, the corporations are still pretty much the financial pipeline for the government.

    More territory, more resources, more profits, more government, more military which can garner more territory. And thus the cycle continues. Imperialism...

    This is the first time since WWII that one country seized part of another country by force. It started in the Crimea, has moved to the eastern provinces of the Ukraine, and next will be parts or the Balkans and parts of the Baltic states. If the latter happens, NATO will get involved. As for the Ukraine - Obama told them in his Estonia speech, that they are on their own, when he said that the Ukraine has no military answer. Ukraine is now Novorussiya - as Putin just declared.
    It is the Eastern Ukraine separatists that coined the name Novorussiya and have been using it since the inception of hostilities. No bloodshed in Crimea and a 95% approval by Crimeans for the annexation. Poroshenko got 28% of the Ukraine electorate to become President. Poroshenko and company attacked their own citizens in Eastern Ukraine and these are the citizens that voted for Yanukovych. A good chance to eliminate your political opposition, don't you think? Russia did not invade Ukraine. Russia had over 20,000 troops in Crimea as part of previous agreements and they stayed and apparently prevented another major bloodshed event orchestrated by Kiev. What you are seeing the the manifestation of the New World Order (corporate control) power structure and trying to control the energy flow to EU for geo-political leverage. You have regurgitated the MSM "talking points" by the presstitutes in the USA. Ask yourself why Poroshenko tried to kill brother Ukrainians? Ask yourself why no diplomacy? Ask yourself if it could be about the huge shale gas deposits in Eastern Ukraine? Tell me why a smart guy like Putin didn't just take Ukraine, if he wanted it? Russia and Putin are the ones being screwed and libelled by the USA and its' diplomatic corps and its' CIA asset press.

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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    It is the Eastern Ukraine separatists that coined the name Novorussiya and have been using it since the inception of hostilities. No bloodshed in Crimea and a 95% approval by Crimeans for the annexation. Poroshenko got 28% of the Ukraine electorate to become President. Poroshenko and company attacked their own citizens in Eastern Ukraine and these are the citizens that voted for Yanukovych. A good chance to eliminate your political opposition, don't you think? Russia did not invade Ukraine. Russia had over 20,000 troops in Crimea as part of previous agreements and they stayed and apparently prevented another major bloodshed event orchestrated by Kiev. What you are seeing the the manifestation of the New World Order (corporate control) power structure and trying to control the energy flow to EU for geo-political leverage. You have regurgitated the MSM "talking points" by the presstitutes in the USA. Ask yourself why Poroshenko tried to kill brother Ukrainians? Ask yourself why no diplomacy? Ask yourself if it could be about the huge shale gas deposits in Eastern Ukraine? Tell me why a smart guy like Putin didn't just take Ukraine, if he wanted it? Russia and Putin are the ones being screwed and libelled by the USA and its' diplomatic corps and its' CIA asset press.
    No one in Eastern Ukraine coined that phrase: Novorossia (Russian: Новоро́ссия, Ukrainian: Новоросія, Romanian: Noua Rusie; literally New Russia) was a historical term of the Russian Empire in 1764-1873 denoting an area north of the Black Sea, presently part of Ukraine.

    The region was conquered by the Russian Empire at the end of the 18th century from the Ottoman Empire and remained under its control until the October Revolution and the collapse of the empire in 1917. In modern terms this historic territory overlaid what is now Donetsk Oblast, small portions of Luhansk Oblast, Dnipropetrovsk Oblast, Zaporizhia Oblast, Mykolaiv Oblast, Kherson Oblast, Odessa Oblast and Crimea in Ukraine, Krasnodar Krai, Stavropol Krai, Rostov Oblast, and the Republic of Adygea in Russia.


    The rest of the information you present, even that that is in question format, is either propaganda from Russia herself (which is ironic given the other statement condemning US media), or conspiracy theory dogma.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

  6. #6
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    You might need to get out more. The information that has seeped into your cerebellum could be delusional. As it turns out Novorussia refers to Eastern Ukraine historically. How 'bout that. Putin described it correctly, historically. For my own levels of diduction, I always take a look at Energy as a motivating factor in any geo-political subterfuge that the USA might be involved in because we seem to let Big Energy run our Nation, for example Iraq (OIL), Syria (OIL), Libya (OIL), Sudan (OIL), Venezuela (OIL), Afghanistan ("we can give you a carpet of gold or a carpet of bombs" Pipelines), and now Ukraine (GAS and PIPELINES). I didn't vote for Exxon Mobil, or Chevron, or BP, or any energy Corporation to run my Nation. Why are we warring wherever Big Energy options are at the forefront. Oh yeh! Just a big co-inky dink, don't ya' know?

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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    You might need to get out more. The information that has seeped into your cerebellum could be delusional. As it turns out Novorussia refers to Eastern Ukraine historically. How 'bout that. Putin described it correctly, historically. For my own levels of diduction, I always take a look at Energy as a motivating factor in any geo-political subterfuge that the USA might be involved in because we seem to let Big Energy run our Nation, for example Iraq (OIL), Syria (OIL), Libya (OIL), Sudan (OIL), Venezuela (OIL), Afghanistan ("we can give you a carpet of gold or a carpet of bombs" Pipelines), and now Ukraine (GAS and PIPELINES). I didn't vote for Exxon Mobil, or Chevron, or BP, or any energy Corporation to run my Nation. Why are we warring wherever Big Energy options are at the forefront. Oh yeh! Just a big co-inky dink, don't ya' know?
    It's impossible for me to have a discussion with you regarding this, because we are so far apart from what each of see as real versus mystic wisdom.

    So, because of that, I will respectfully withdraw at this time.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    I began closely follow this ongoing Ukraine crisis in November last year.

    The protests began because Poor Folks were unhappy about the inequality of lifestyles within the country of Ukraine itself. The protesters were tired of being ruled by rich oligarchs. These Rich Folks kept Ukraine isolated and as a captive market for goods and services sold inside Ukraine.

    When the American NGO's and Senators turned up to show support for the protesters, they often brought sandwiches with them or other foodstuffs which would mean that the Protesters were protesting "Bread and Butter" issues.

    A large portion of the protesters were really from the Far Right spectrum of society and who desired to take on what they described as being the "Economic Terrorists" in their midst. The bribery, the corruption and the undue influence of particular families and tribes who held such a large influence within Ukrainian society.

    When the Russia-Linked president resigned, the street protesters stormed the parliament and the Far Right grabbed and held the most senior posts within the military and police establishment while the U.S. backed leaders took control of the finance department all other remaining levers of power.

    Within 24 hours, the U.S. backed leaders introduced legislation which outlawed the Russian language while knowing full well that at least 30 percent of the population spoke Russian.

    The U.S. backed leaders then sent out the police and military, which was controlled by and consisted of "Far Right" supporters, to tramp down the Russian insurrection in the East of the country.

    With the Far Right out of the capital city and far from the seat of government power, and fighting an insurgency elsewhere, the U.S. backed political class elected a Rich Oligarch or an Economic Terrorist.

    Overnight the problems in Ukraine became the fault of Russia.

    In the end, all those members of the Far Right and who managed to own the military/police departments after first storming the parliament 6 months ago, they will all be set up for a massacre while fighting the insurgents, and before they are ever allowed to return to the capital of Kiev.

    The U.S. is going to bail out Ukraine by selling them military equipment which the U.S. purchased on credit and them sold it to Ukraine on credit and thus in doing so, the U.S. managed to print another 5 billion dollars and dump it on the world markets.

    The one million dollar tank (as an example) becomes an "Asset" inside Ukraine and thus a Ukrainian Economic Terrorist will be allowed to borrow money from a U.S. Capitalist while using the tank-asset as collateral.

    In about five years time, the U.S. Capitalists are going to begin calling in the loans and the cookie jar will be empty .... so the Ukraine will need to sell all its state owned farm land to wealthy German Oligarchs rather than to Russia and the Chinese. The U.S. Capitalists are not at all interested in the industrial areas of Ukraine. They only want to own the bread basket. The industrial area is in the East but not the bread basket. Russia only wants a land access to it's military base in Crimea. Russia can't have a military port which is not accessible by land. All Russia wants is a sliver of land which will act as a roadway from Russia Proper to Crimea.

    NATO is setting the path towards becoming the single or sole arbitrator of any world disputes rather than the United Nations.

    All NATO members are going to walk away from the United Nations after the collapse of the U.S. empire.

    This article is really, really long, but it almost reads like a Plato essay. Very well written and explained.

    Russian Nationalism and Eurasianism:
    The Ideology of Russian Regional Power and the Rejection of Western Values
    By Dr. Matthew Raphael Johnson
    August 02, 2014
    http://syncreticstudies.com/2014/08/...western-values

    And here is a pretty good article which explains the recent wins by the "Separitists".

    Understanding the Astounding Novorossiyan Victories
    By Joaquin Flores
    August 30, 2014
    http://syncreticstudies.com/2014/08/...iyan-victories


    Calm
    Last edited by calm; 09-04-14 at 11:59 PM.

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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    I mentioned "All NATO members are going to walk away from the United Nations after the collapse of the U.S. empire."

    I would like to add ....

    The only incident which I feel might speed up NATO members abandoning the United Nations is if Israel is found to be guilty of war crimes in Gaza.

    If the United Nations finds that both Israel and Hamas committed war crimes, that is game over for the United Nations.

    Hamas will not be too embarrassed across the universe because it has already been branded a terrorist organization. Hamas is just a "Terrorist Organization" and Israel is said to be a "State" with a conscience which dates back to the holocaust at least.

    Israel will live with this War Crime Branding forever .... If an overwhelming majority of the world population has them being found guilty of war crimes, even though it may suffer a U.S. veto at the Security Council, is one of those "Never Forget" things. The world shame will be totally immense.

    If Israel is found guilty of war crimes, and it will be if the case is reviewed by the United Nations, Israel will not want to remain as a U.N. member after calling the ambassadors representing 90 percent of the world population anti-semites.

    NATO will follow and support Israel's decision.

    However; Israel may very well agree to lift the embargo against Palestine and completely pay for reconstruction if they can find somebody within the Palestinian leadership to agree not to bring the War Crime charges to the United Nations for consideration. There is about a 2 year window of opportunity to circumvent the process before an actual UN General Assembly member vote.

    Calm
    Last edited by calm; 09-05-14 at 12:59 AM.

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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by calm View Post
    I mentioned "All NATO members are going to walk away from the United Nations after the collapse of the U.S. empire."

    I would like to add ....

    The only incident which I feel might speed up NATO members abandoning the United Nations is if Israel is found to be guilty of war crimes in Gaza.

    If the United Nations finds that both Israel and Hamas committed war crimes, that is game over for the United Nations.

    Hamas will not be too embarrassed across the universe because it has already been branded a terrorist organization. Hamas is just a "Terrorist Organization" and Israel is said to be a "State" with a conscience which dates back to the holocaust at least.

    Israel will live with this War Crime Branding forever .... If an overwhelming majority of the world population has them being found guilty of war crimes, even though it may suffer a U.S. veto at the Security Council, is one of those "Never Forget" things. The world shame will be totally immense.

    If Israel is found guilty of war crimes, and it will be if the case is reviewed by the United Nations, Israel will not want to remain as a U.N. member after calling the ambassadors representing 90 percent of the world population anti-semites.

    NATO will follow and support Israel's decision.

    However; Israel may very well agree to lift the embargo against Palestine and completely pay for reconstruction if they can find somebody within the Palestinian leadership to agree not to bring the War Crime charges to the United Nations for consideration. There is about a 2 year window of opportunity to circumvent the process before an actual UN General Assembly member vote.

    Calm
    Much of what you have stated in posts 8 and 9 is exactly correct. The only thing of major significance that you missed is the "Shale Gas" in East Ukraine and the Azov Sea. Everybody wants it to fill the pipeline already connected to Europe. Another way to say it is that the power structures don't want the East Ukrainians to control it. Why else would big players like Joe Biden's son, Kerry's son in law, Chevron, Barisma, Kolomoisky, etc. risk so much to try to get absolute control of this restive region. They didn't want to negotiate, they wanted physical possession and the more dead East Ukrainians the more certain the physical possession. This is another Big Energy play just like Iraq, Libya, etc. The sad part is that it's always USA and its' Corporate NWO hierarchy behind these shenanigans. If death, chaos, war can be lightly described as shenanigans, eh?

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