View Poll Results: What is the War in Ukraine about?

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Thread: What is the War in Ukraine about?

  1. #11
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Click the link and read the entire article-best choice
    http://consortiumnews.com/2014/09/03...kraine-crisis/
    "The Whys Behind the Ukraine Crisis
    Exclusive:
    Given the very high stakes of a nuclear confrontation with Russia, some analysts wonder what’s the real motive for taking this extraordinary risk over Ukraine. Is it about natural gas, protection of the U.S. dollar’s dominance, or an outgrowth of neocon extremism, asks Robert Parry."
    "By Robert ParryA senior U.S. diplomat told me recently that if Russia were to occupy all of Ukraine and even neighboring Belarus that there would be zero impact on U.S. national interests. The diplomat wasn’t advocating that, of course, but was noting the curious reality that Official Washington’s current war hysteria over Ukraine doesn’t connect to genuine security concerns.
    So why has so much of the Washington Establishment – from prominent government officials to all the major media pundits – devoted so much time this past year to pounding their chests over the need to confront Russia regarding Ukraine? Who is benefiting from this eminently avoidable – yet extremely dangerous – crisis? What’s driving the madness?"snip
    "
    Plus, if “democracy promotion” were the real motive, there were obviously better ways to achieve it. Democratically elected President Viktor Yanukovych pledged on Feb. 21 – in an agreement guaranteed by three European nations – to surrender much of his power and hold early elections so he could be voted out of office if the people wanted.
    However, on Feb. 22, the agreement was brushed aside as neo-Nazi militias stormed presidential buildings and forced Yanukovych and other officials to flee for their lives. Rather than stand behind the Feb. 21 arrangement, the U.S. State Department quickly endorsed the coup regime that emerged as “legitimate” and the mainstream U.S. press dutifully demonized Yanukovych by noting, for instance, that a house being built for him had a pricy sauna."snip
    "
    In the Ukraine case, the temptation has been to think that Moscow – hit with escalating economic sanctions – will back down even as the EU and U.S. energy interests seize control of eastern Ukraine’s energy reserves. The fracking could mean both a financial bonanza to investors and an end to Russia’s dominance of the natural gas supplies feeding central and eastern Europe. So the economic and geopolitical payoff could be substantial.
    According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, Ukraine has Europe’s third-largest shale gas reserves at 42 trillion cubic feet, an inviting target especially since other European nations, such as Britain, Poland, France and Bulgaria, have resisted fracking technology because of environmental concerns. An economically supine Ukraine would presumably be less able to say no."snip
    "As Time magazine reported, “Leiter’s involvement in the firm rounds out a power-packed team of politically-connected Americans that also includes a second new board member, Devon Archer, a Democratic bundler and former adviser to John Kerry’s 2004 presidential campaign. Both Archer and Hunter Biden have worked as business partners with Kerry’s son-in-law, Christopher Heinz, the founding partner of Rosemont Capital, a private-equity company.”snip
    "
    There’s also the issue of Russia’s interest in exploring with China and other emerging economies the possibility of escaping the financial hegemony of the U.S. dollar, a move that could seriously threaten American economic dominance. According to this line of thinking, the U.S. and its close allies need to bring Moscow to its geopolitical knees – where it was under the late Boris Yeltsin – to stop any experimentation with other currencies for global trade.
    Again, the advocates for this theory have a point. Protecting the Mighty Dollar is of utmost importance to Wall Street. The financial cataclysm of a potential ouster of the U.S. dollar as the world’s benchmark currency might understandably prompt some powerful people to play a dangerous game of chicken with nuclear-armed Russia.
    Of course, there’s also the budgetary interest of NATO and the U.S. “military-industrial complex” (which helps fund many of Washington’s “think tanks”) to hype every propaganda opportunity to scare the American people about the “Russian threat.”snip
    "Your many friends in the mainstream U.S. news media begin to relentlessly demonize Putin with a propaganda barrage that would do a totalitarian state proud. The anti-Putin ‘group think’ is near total and any accusation – regardless of the absence of facts – is fine.”
    Yet, by risking a potential nuclear confrontation with Russia — the equivalent of the old lady swallowing a horse – the neocons have moved beyond what can be described in a children’s ditty. It has become more like a global version of Israel’s “Samson Option,” the readiness to use nuclear weapons in a self-destructive commitment to eliminate your enemies whatever the cost to yourself.
    But what is particularly shocking in this case is how virtually everyone in U.S. officialdom – and across the mainstream media spectrum – has bought into this madness."

    Is this a scheme to get Eastern Ukraine Gas into the pipeline?
    Is this a Big Energy agenda item?
    Is there any democracy involved here?
    How is it so many US political connections are in the Gas business with Ukrainian billionaires?
    Will this fire up the Cold War to the benefit of the Military/Industrial/Corporate complex?
    Interesting that this info didn't make Mainstream Media in the USA?
    The thing is quite simple. Putin images Black Sea as an internal see, but that is optional. His support to the separatists regarding peace agrements is a gate-way to the proclamation of the historical de jure "Nuovorussia"(the entire South Ukraine). If Ukraine is "forced" to accept separatists' requests, will lose the South.

    My deduction is based on the name they chose to represent the federation of the 2 self-proclaimed republics, Donetsk and Lugansk, "Nuovorussia", and on the way the "conflict" evolved.

    The interest of Russia here is very obvious. Even if the conflict was started by the separatists or the whole thing is a trick performed by Putin, if we will get to see the emerging of a new state/federation in the north of the Black Sea, it will not be for too long. Most of, if not all, of the separatists are "in love" with Russia. The probability that they will not only unite with Russia, but even let them be anexed by Russia(in order to improve russian image), is impossible to ignore.

    So Putin's logic is about like that: NATO tries to get to my border? It is unavoidable, as it would have happened sooner or later. Then let's prepare ourselfes and make them a surprise by being us the firsts to get to their border(Nuovorussia's de jure spreads in vest to Romania and Moldova Republic). The new ressources and positioning would be a bonus and a tool. Evrika!

  2. #12
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Same as any war, political differences.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Much of what you have stated in posts 8 and 9 is exactly correct. The only thing of major significance that you missed is the "Shale Gas" in East Ukraine and the Azov Sea.
    Did you manage to read the article concerning how the media and the CIA are working together? That the main writer or "Security Expert" for the Los Angeles Times and who now is the Associated Press "Intelligence Expert" was/is a CIA agent? (Not much difference between U.S. Main Scream Media and RT or Russia Today.)

    The CIA’s Mop-Up Man: L.A. Times Reporter Cleared Stories With Agency Before Publication
    By Ken Silverstein
    September 04, 2014
    https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2...ia-publication

    I have always claimed that NATO member states are planning to leave the United Nations as China begins to exercise its "clout" within world events. The U.S. is slowly losing or vacating its total control of UN Securtiy Council. It will begin defunding the United Nations in the very near future in order to weaken the U.N. as an International Tool, which was once owned and operated by the Council Of Foreign Relations and the Rockefeller Team. In order to walk away, the U.S. will claim the UN to be "Ineffective".

    Before this happens, Western Europe must be weaned off of Russian energy products.

    The new war in Iraq and the fact that the Kurds were allowed to take over control of additional territory and which contains the largest oil reserves known to mankind, will have a pipeline run through Turkey and then to Europe. Turkey will then be given membership in the EU.

    What I find quite amazing is that the West has been bombing Iraq for 25 years!!!

    Then today they would stand up and claim the are at a loss to understand the absolute "PTSD Induced" anger all across Iraq.

    There were American soldiers returning from Iraq suffering from PTSD and many of them flipped out after returning home and killed their whole damn family. The American soldiers at least got some help and counselling and maybe Dolly Parton showed up to sing a few tunes for them. But not the Iraqi civilians. There are countless Iraqi Refugees wandering aimlessly across the Middle East bent on PTSD revenge.

    The Americans are all upset about cutting somebody's head off, but forget Abu Gharib and the crucifixion photos, the soldiers peeing on dead Afghan civilians, and I could go on and on. The Americans were strapping dead Iraqi Soldiers to the hood of their jeeps and trucking around Iraq.

    Calm
    Last edited by calm; 09-05-14 at 01:36 PM.

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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    It's about the realignment of the world order after the future demise of the US dollar. The US is trying to create conditions that will be more favorable to it after this demise.

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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    It's about the realignment of the world order after the future demise of the US dollar. The US is trying to create conditions that will be more favorable to it after this demise.
    Exactly .... If you don't own a piece of the puzzle before the collapse, then you got nothing to say afterwards. To have earned a place at the "Negotiating" table after the collapse, you gotta own it prior the collapse.

    The Capitalists are creating trilions and trillions of paper beads and trinkets (dollars), and dumping them onto the world money markets, polluting the entire world financial system. The Capitalists are printing and distributing as many dollars which the world can swallow and laying claim to half the universe through a "Ponzi Scheme".

    Calm

  6. #16
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Click the link and read the entire article-best choice
    The Whys Behind the Ukraine Crisis | Consortiumnews
    "The Whys Behind the Ukraine Crisis
    Exclusive:
    Given the very high stakes of a nuclear confrontation with Russia, some analysts wonder what’s the real motive for taking this extraordinary risk over Ukraine. Is it about natural gas, protection of the U.S. dollar’s dominance, or an outgrowth of neocon extremism, asks Robert Parry."
    "By Robert ParryA senior U.S. diplomat told me recently that if Russia were to occupy all of Ukraine and even neighboring Belarus that there would be zero impact on U.S. national interests. The diplomat wasn’t advocating that, of course, but was noting the curious reality that Official Washington’s current war hysteria over Ukraine doesn’t connect to genuine security concerns.
    So why has so much of the Washington Establishment – from prominent government officials to all the major media pundits – devoted so much time this past year to pounding their chests over the need to confront Russia regarding Ukraine? Who is benefiting from this eminently avoidable – yet extremely dangerous – crisis? What’s driving the madness?"snip
    "
    Plus, if “democracy promotion” were the real motive, there were obviously better ways to achieve it. Democratically elected President Viktor Yanukovych pledged on Feb. 21 – in an agreement guaranteed by three European nations – to surrender much of his power and hold early elections so he could be voted out of office if the people wanted.
    However, on Feb. 22, the agreement was brushed aside as neo-Nazi militias stormed presidential buildings and forced Yanukovych and other officials to flee for their lives. Rather than stand behind the Feb. 21 arrangement, the U.S. State Department quickly endorsed the coup regime that emerged as “legitimate” and the mainstream U.S. press dutifully demonized Yanukovych by noting, for instance, that a house being built for him had a pricy sauna."snip
    "
    In the Ukraine case, the temptation has been to think that Moscow – hit with escalating economic sanctions – will back down even as the EU and U.S. energy interests seize control of eastern Ukraine’s energy reserves. The fracking could mean both a financial bonanza to investors and an end to Russia’s dominance of the natural gas supplies feeding central and eastern Europe. So the economic and geopolitical payoff could be substantial.
    According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, Ukraine has Europe’s third-largest shale gas reserves at 42 trillion cubic feet, an inviting target especially since other European nations, such as Britain, Poland, France and Bulgaria, have resisted fracking technology because of environmental concerns. An economically supine Ukraine would presumably be less able to say no."snip
    "As Time magazine reported, “Leiter’s involvement in the firm rounds out a power-packed team of politically-connected Americans that also includes a second new board member, Devon Archer, a Democratic bundler and former adviser to John Kerry’s 2004 presidential campaign. Both Archer and Hunter Biden have worked as business partners with Kerry’s son-in-law, Christopher Heinz, the founding partner of Rosemont Capital, a private-equity company.”snip
    "
    There’s also the issue of Russia’s interest in exploring with China and other emerging economies the possibility of escaping the financial hegemony of the U.S. dollar, a move that could seriously threaten American economic dominance. According to this line of thinking, the U.S. and its close allies need to bring Moscow to its geopolitical knees – where it was under the late Boris Yeltsin – to stop any experimentation with other currencies for global trade.
    Again, the advocates for this theory have a point. Protecting the Mighty Dollar is of utmost importance to Wall Street. The financial cataclysm of a potential ouster of the U.S. dollar as the world’s benchmark currency might understandably prompt some powerful people to play a dangerous game of chicken with nuclear-armed Russia.
    Of course, there’s also the budgetary interest of NATO and the U.S. “military-industrial complex” (which helps fund many of Washington’s “think tanks”) to hype every propaganda opportunity to scare the American people about the “Russian threat.”snip
    "Your many friends in the mainstream U.S. news media begin to relentlessly demonize Putin with a propaganda barrage that would do a totalitarian state proud. The anti-Putin ‘group think’ is near total and any accusation – regardless of the absence of facts – is fine.”
    Yet, by risking a potential nuclear confrontation with Russia — the equivalent of the old lady swallowing a horse – the neocons have moved beyond what can be described in a children’s ditty. It has become more like a global version of Israel’s “Samson Option,” the readiness to use nuclear weapons in a self-destructive commitment to eliminate your enemies whatever the cost to yourself.
    But what is particularly shocking in this case is how virtually everyone in U.S. officialdom – and across the mainstream media spectrum – has bought into this madness."

    Is this a scheme to get Eastern Ukraine Gas into the pipeline?
    Is this a Big Energy agenda item?
    Is there any democracy involved here?
    How is it so many US political connections are in the Gas business with Ukrainian billionaires?
    Will this fire up the Cold War to the benefit of the Military/Industrial/Corporate complex?
    Interesting that this info didn't make Mainstream Media in the USA?
    Your problem is that you cannot understand the hatred that Ukrainians feel toward Russia. Think of America and the British and you might get the picture. Yankovitch sold out Ukraine to Russia and Putin after promising he would not to get elected. That is why he was overthrown.

  7. #17
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    It's mostly about energy and strategic interests. The US lit a match in the ME, which has been a smoldering bonfire anyway. Now you've got a shrunken Russia that wants a piece of the pie, and to stop competing European pipelines from coming in pumping winter gas from the Mid East.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  8. #18
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Your problem is that you cannot understand the hatred that Ukrainians feel toward Russia. Think of America and the British and you might get the picture. Yankovitch sold out Ukraine to Russia and Putin after promising he would not to get elected. That is why he was overthrown.
    It is those who overthrew him that we need to be concerned with. There are no "good guys" here that I can see.

  9. #19
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by calm View Post
    Exactly .... If you don't own a piece of the puzzle before the collapse, then you got nothing to say afterwards. To have earned a place at the "Negotiating" table after the collapse, you gotta own it prior the collapse.

    The Capitalists are creating trilions and trillions of paper beads and trinkets (dollars), and dumping them onto the world money markets, polluting the entire world financial system. The Capitalists are printing and distributing as many dollars which the world can swallow and laying claim to half the universe through a "Ponzi Scheme".

    Calm
    I think that is correct, but I view "a piece of the puzzle" as oil, gas, pipelines, leases, mineral rights, real estate, gold, silver and other things that you can purchase with those fiat dollars and the things don't crash when the dollar does. The only one to get screwed will be the proverbial "sh*t rolls downhill" to the lowly citizen taxpayer holding the bag. Ponzi scheme is also precisely correct.

  10. #20
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    It is those who overthrew him that we need to be concerned with. There are no "good guys" here that I can see.
    So you are worried about the majority of Ukrainians? They wish to be part of Europe and not the "Soviet bloc". Why is that a concern for you?

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