View Poll Results: What is the War in Ukraine about?

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  • Freedom and Democracy!

    2 5.13%
  • Big Energy and Big Profits!

    10 25.64%
  • Russian Imperialism!

    27 69.23%
  • USA Imperialism!

    3 7.69%
  • NWO Corporate Imperialism!

    5 12.82%
  • Autonomy for Ethnic Russian Ukrainians!

    12 30.77%
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Thread: What is the War in Ukraine about?

  1. #131
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    NATO expansion eastward.
    Yes because an EU associate agreement = NATO. Where do you people come up with this nonsense?

    It was Russia that started all of this first with economic warfare in order to prevent the Ukraine's right to self determination which prompted peaceful protests supported by the majority of Ukrainians which resulted in a Russian puppet at the direct behest of Putin, sending in his jack booted thugs to attack and murder the protesters which resulted in his impeachment followed by his treasonous self imposed exile to Russian occupied territory, then what happened next is Russia invaded, occupied, installed an occupation government with Spec Ops holding AKs and rocket launchers in the Crimean parliamentary building during the swearing in of a new Crimean "prime minister" and this was followed by the outright illegal annexation of sovereign Ukrainian territory by the Russian Federation through a fraudulent and illegal referendum, in which only two options were offered cessation or annexation rather than maintaining the status quo and which did not allow for the majority of Ukrainians to participate in direct violation of both the Ukrainian and Crimean Constitutions,

  2. #132
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Taking Fearandloathing's wise suggestion, more to the point of the US's involvement in Ukraine.

    Kissinger's take on the Ukraine crisis.
    Henry Kissinger’s Perspective on the Ukrainian Crisis | Defusing the Nuclear Threat

    Oil, gas and nuclear power companies make up the top group lobbying on Ukraine, records show. Along with Exxon Mobil, Chevron Corp., Anadarko Petroleum Corporation, Westinghouse Electric Co., and the Nuclear Energy Institute also filed first-quarter lobbying reports that cover Ukraine.

    Ukraine Crisis Drives a Quiet Lobbying Boom in U.S. - Businessweek
    Yes people and businesses are lobbying for a free and independent Ukrainian with stronger economic ties to the West that in no way whatsoever changes the fact that the crisis in the Ukraine is the direct result of Russian interventionism from beginning to end, facts are stubborn things, it was Russia that started all of this first with economic warfare in order to prevent the Ukraine's right to self determination which prompted peaceful protests supported by a plurality if not an outright majority of Ukrainians which resulted in a Russian puppet at the direct behest of Putin, sending in his jack booted thugs to attack and murder the protesters which resulted in his impeachment followed by his treasonous self imposed exile to Russian occupied territory, then what happened next is Russia invaded, occupied, installed an occupation government with Spec Ops holding AKs and rocket launchers in the Crimean parliamentary building during the swearing in of a new Crimean "prime minister" and this was followed by the outright illegal annexation of sovereign Ukrainian territory by the Russian Federation through a fraudulent and illegal referendum in which only two options were offered cessation or annexation rather than maintaining the status quo and which did not allow for the majority of Ukrainians to participate in violation of both the Ukrainian and Crimean Constitutions,

  3. #133
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    ...in violation of both the Ukrainian and Crimean Constitutions,
    The Crimean constitution at the time of invasion specified that Crimea was an autonomous region of Ukraine. There was no secession referendum provision in the Crimean constitution and it stated that no change in this region's legal status could occur without the permission of the Ukrainian government. Furthermore, it stated that in all areas of law and governance, the Ukrainian constitution superseded the Crimean constitution.

    Clearly, Russia's armed invasion and subsequent annexation of Crimea violates the long established international laws and norms regarding sovereignty. Most nations of the world (and rightfully so) view Crimea as occupied territory.

  4. #134
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    A) The only reason why he went with Russia is because as he was about to sign the agreement Russia waged an economic war against the Ukraine.

    B) It was a plurality if not a majority who supported entrance into the EU:

    Public opinion about Euromaidan

    According to December 2013 polls (by three different pollsters) between 45% and 50% of Ukrainians supported Euromaidan, while between 42% and 50% opposed it.[127][128][129] The biggest support for the protest can be found in Kiev (about 75%) and western Ukraine (more than 80%).[127][130] Among Euromaidan protesters, 55% are from the west of the country, with 24% from central Ukraine and 21% from the east.[131]

    In a poll taken on 78 December, 73% of protesters had committed to continue protesting in Kiev as long as needed until their demands are fulfilled.[6] This number has increased to 82% as of 3 February 2014.[131] Polls also show that the nation is divided in age: while majority of young people are pro-EU, older generations (50 and above) more often prefer the Customs Union of Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Russia.[132] More than 41% of protesters are ready to take part in the seizure of administrative buildings as of February, compared to 13 and 19 percent during polls on 10 and 20 December 2013. At the same time, more than 50 percent are ready to take part in the creation of independent military units, compared to 15 and 21 percent during the past studies, respectively.[131]
    Headquarters of the Euromaidan. At the front entrance there is a portrait of Stepan Bandera - fighter for the independence of Ukraine.

    According to a January poll, 45% of Ukrainians supported the protests, and 48% of Ukrainians disapproved of Euromaidan.[133]

    In a March poll, 57% of Ukrainians said they supported the Euromaidan protests.[134]

    Public opinion about joining the EU

    According to an August 2013 study by a Donetsk company, Research & Branding Group,[135] 49% of Ukrainians supported signing the Association Agreement, while 31% opposed it and the rest had not decided yet. However, in a December poll by the same company, only 30% claimed that terms of the Association agreement would be beneficial for the Ukrainian economy, while 39% said they were unfavourable for Ukraine. In the same poll, only 30% said the opposition would be able to stabilise the society and govern the country well, if coming to power, while 37% disagreed.[136]

    Authors of the GfK Ukraine poll conducted 215 October 2013 claim that 45% of respondents believed Ukraine should sign an Association Agreement with the EU, whereas only 14% favoured joining the Customs Union of Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Russia, and 15% preferred non-alignment. Full text of the EU-related question asked by GfK reads, "Should Ukraine sign the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement, and, in the future, become an EU member?"[137][138]

    Another poll conducted in November by IFAK Ukraine for DW-Trend showed 58% of Ukrainians supporting the country's entry into the European Union.[139] On the other hand a November 2013 poll by Kyiv International Institute of Sociology showed 39% supporting the country's entry into the European Union and 37% supporting Ukraine's accession to the Customs Union of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Russia.[140]
    Kyiv on 12 December: The Christmas tree on Independence square decorated by posters erected by demonstrators


    Euromaidan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Furthermore; the reason why opposition likely existed at all were the lies regarding the signing of the agreement proliferated by Russian propagandists.
    There's been plenty of propaganda to go around, you serving some up yourself. You quoted the same poll that I have before which shows a 50/50 split so that's far from what was seen in Crimea. You criticise Russia claiming they began an economic war while the US is waging an economic war on Russia presently. I'm sorry your feelings are hurt on this, but Russia has the solid ground in this and you should educate yourself by reading what both the former ambassador to Russia and Henry Kissenger have said on this.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  5. #135
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    Yes because an EU associate agreement = NATO. Where do you people come up with this nonsense?

    It was Russia that started all of this first with economic warfare in order to prevent the Ukraine's right to self determination which prompted peaceful protests supported by the majority of Ukrainians which resulted in a Russian puppet at the direct behest of Putin, sending in his jack booted thugs to attack and murder the protesters which resulted in his impeachment followed by his treasonous self imposed exile to Russian occupied territory, then what happened next is Russia invaded, occupied, installed an occupation government with Spec Ops holding AKs and rocket launchers in the Crimean parliamentary building during the swearing in of a new Crimean "prime minister" and this was followed by the outright illegal annexation of sovereign Ukrainian territory by the Russian Federation through a fraudulent and illegal referendum, in which only two options were offered cessation or annexation rather than maintaining the status quo and which did not allow for the majority of Ukrainians to participate in direct violation of both the Ukrainian and Crimean Constitutions,

    China Backs Russia on Ukraine

    Chinese foreign ministry spokesman on Ukraine,

    However, Qin also cryptically said that “there are reasons for why the situation in Ukraine is what it is today.” Qin didn’t go into detail about what those reasons might be, but Chinese media sources offered some suggestions. A Xinhua commentary argued that the West’s “biased mediation has polarized Ukraine and only made things worse in the country.” The article said that the West should work together with Russia to find a solution, and “stop trying to exclude Russia from the political crisis they failed to mediate.”

    Further, the Xinhua commentary had no criticism for Russia’s decision to send troops to Crimea. “It is quite understandable when Putin said his country retained the right to protect its interests and Russian-speakers living in Ukraine,” the commentary said. Rather than opposing the move, the West should “respect Russia’s unique role in mapping out the future of Ukraine.”

    http://thediplomat.com/2014/03/china...ia-on-ukraine/


    India Backs Russia's "Legitimate Interests" In Ukraine

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...erests-ukraine
    Last edited by Montecresto; 09-19-14 at 09:38 AM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  6. #136
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    There's been plenty of propaganda to go around, you serving some up yourself. You quoted the same poll that I have before which shows a 50/50 split
    It shows no such thing you are lying it shows a huge plurality support and a significant minority opposition learn to read polling data.

    You criticise Russia claiming they began an economic war while the US is waging an economic war on Russia presently.
    lmfao are you actually serious with this comparison? Let's see on the one hand we have the Ukraine which was guilty of nothing other than exercising their inalienable right to self determination by attempting to join a voluntary trade agreement with the EU and on the other hand we have Russia who pushed Yanukovych to attack and murder his own people for peacefully protesting and then invaded and illegally annexed and is now ethnically cleansing sovereign Ukrainian territory.
    Last edited by face, your; 09-19-14 at 02:00 PM.

  7. #137
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    China Backs Russia on Ukraine

    Chinese foreign ministry spokesman on Ukraine,

    However, Qin also cryptically said that “there are reasons for why the situation in Ukraine is what it is today.” Qin didn’t go into detail about what those reasons might be, but Chinese media sources offered some suggestions. A Xinhua commentary argued that the West’s “biased mediation has polarized Ukraine and only made things worse in the country.” The article said that the West should work together with Russia to find a solution, and “stop trying to exclude Russia from the political crisis they failed to mediate.”

    Further, the Xinhua commentary had no criticism for Russia’s decision to send troops to Crimea. “It is quite understandable when Putin said his country retained the right to protect its interests and Russian-speakers living in Ukraine,” the commentary said. Rather than opposing the move, the West should “respect Russia’s unique role in mapping out the future of Ukraine.”

    China Backs Russia on Ukraine | The Diplomat


    India Backs Russia's "Legitimate Interests" In Ukraine

    India Backs Russia's "Legitimate Interests" In Ukraine | Zero Hedge
    Support for the illegal annexation of the Crimea from the totalitarian state of China means absolutely nothing, the majority of the world voted to condemn the illegal annexation of the Crimea in UNGA resolution 68/262:

    United Nations General Assembly Resolution 68/262 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    United Nations General Assembly Resolution 68/262 is a resolution adopted on March 27, 2014 by the sixty-eighth session of the United Nations General Assembly in response to the 2014 Crimean crisis and entitled "Territorial integrity of Ukraine". The resolution, which was supported by 100 United Nations member states, affirmed the United Nations commitment to recognize Crimea within Ukraine’s international borders and underscored the invalidity of the 2014 Crimean referendum.

    The only reason why the UNSC didn't pass a resolution condemning the illegal annexation is because Russia used their permanent member status to veto said Resolution, even China showed their support by abstaining which is tantamount to a yes vote because the Resolution would have passed, because the U.S., U.K., and France voted yes:

    United Nations News Centre - UN Security Council action on Crimea referendum blocked

    15 March 2014 – Owing to the negative vote of one of its permanent members, the United Nations Security Council today failed to adopt a draft resolution which urged countries not to recognize the results of this weekend's referendum in Crimea.

    Thirteen of the Council's 15 members voted in favour of the draft text, Russia voted against, and China abstained. A veto by any of the Council's five permanent members – China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom and the United States – means a resolution cannot be adopted.

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