View Poll Results: What is the War in Ukraine about?

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  • Freedom and Democracy!

    2 5.13%
  • Big Energy and Big Profits!

    10 25.64%
  • Russian Imperialism!

    27 69.23%
  • USA Imperialism!

    3 7.69%
  • NWO Corporate Imperialism!

    5 12.82%
  • Autonomy for Ethnic Russian Ukrainians!

    12 30.77%
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Thread: What is the War in Ukraine about?

  1. #121
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    Montecresto's Avatar
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Unfortunately for him his people wanted another direction.
    And your wrong again, a 50/50 split is not "his people", that's half his people. But good day Hays, I knew you couldn't be trusted for honesty in this.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  2. #122
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Bull crap. Since when do the few make the decision for the many, US/NATO abuse of the UN resolution for the use of force has Libya in tethers, sorry, like Ukraine, just another US foreign policy failure.

    Jack Matlock, U.S. ambassador to the Soviet Union from 1987 to 1991, says that the U.S. and NATO are to blame for the Ukraine crisis:

    The fact is they are going to intervene until they are certain that there is no prospect of Ukraine becoming a member of NATO. And all of the threats by NATO and so on to sort of increase defenses elsewhere is simply provocative to the Russians. Now, Iím not saying thatís right, but I am saying thatís the way Russia is going to react. And frankly, this is all predictable. And those of us who helped negotiate the end of the Cold War almost unanimously said in the 1990s, ďDo not expand NATO eastward. Find a different way to protect eastern Europe, a way that includes Russia. Otherwise, eventually thereís going to be a confrontation, because there is a red line, as far as any Russian government is concerned, when it comes to Ukraine and Georgia and other former republics of the Soviet Union.Ē
    Libyans have Libya in tatters; no one else bears even a scintilla of responsibility. Jack Matlock is a very smart man whom I respect quite a bit, but he's got this backward. NATO did not move east to Ukraine. The Ukrainian people moved west to NATO. Putin would do well to remember Metternich's wisdom: a prince can do many things with bayonets, but he cannot sit on them.

    And btw, please note that even Matlock does not say the Russians are right.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  3. #123
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    And your wrong again, a 50/50 split is not "his people", that's half his people. But good day Hays, I knew you couldn't be trusted for honesty in this.
    Hmmm. I don't recall seeing that alleged pro-Russian 50% in the streets.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  4. #124
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I wonder if some disgruntled Americans could get a NATO regime change to happen in the US?
    Greetings, Montecresto.

    I doubt it, since we provide a big chunk of their funding. Money does talk, even though sometimes it only whispers threats! !

  5. #125
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, Montecresto.

    I doubt it, since we provide a big chunk of their funding. Money does talk, even though sometimes it only whispers threats! !
    I know Polgara, I was being facetious based upon the suggestion that a comparative handful of separatists asked the West to help them overthrow Gaddafi. Never mind that UNR 1973 didn't authorize that.

    Good evening to you
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  6. #126
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I know Polgara, I was being facetious based upon the suggestion that a comparative handful of separatists asked the West to help them overthrow Gaddafi. Never mind that UNR 1973 didn't authorize that.

    Good evening to you
    I swear that lately I feel like Alice in Wonderland, where things keep getting "curiouser and curiouser!" I don't like that feeling, and I don't think that I am alone in that!

  7. #127
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Don't take any laxatives. There won't be anything left of you.
    The only person who is FOS is Edward Snowden.

    The Lies Edward Snowden Tells - The Atlantic

    But ya let's believe Snowden who says he cares about civil liberties while simultaneously fleeing to an authoritarian secret police state led by an overt and unabashed war criminal whose regime is guilty of ethnic cleansing not just most recently in the sovereign Ukrainian territory of the Crimea but previously in the sovereign Georgian territory of South Ossettia.

    But I do so love how you admit that you have no rebuttal and have lost the debate by resorting to a childish ad-hom, touche sir touche.

  8. #128
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    With all DUE respect, under the law, which you seem to claim to know a lot about, if someone accuses someone of being a "liar" tehy need to document that with proof, it's called "onus" of the accuser.

    No where have I ever seen any credible evidence that Snowden "lied" as he never said anything, he merely released documents which should have been public information in the first place.

    So, if you have anything credible please present it after reading rule #10. If not, please be so kind as to close the pie hole and allow this debate to get back to where it was intended.


    have a wonderful day.
    A) No he didn't just release documents he released only select documents which did not tell the whole story and not only that he released them to the likes of Glenn Greenwald whose anti-Americanism ranks right up there with the likes of Chomsky and Finkelstein:



    Glenn Greenwald: Maybe American Military Has Been The Real Terrorist In Iraq


    who in turn only reported (misleadingly) on select documents of the already select documents which in no way tell the whole story.

    B) Do your research next time I'm not here to spoon feed you guys:

    Report Indicates Snowden/Greenwald Lied About Key Claims

    5 Ways Edward Snowdens Story Isn't Holding Up

    The Lies Edward Snowden Tells - The Atlantic
    Last edited by face, your; 09-19-14 at 01:06 AM.

  9. #129
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    Once again, with disregard to your antagonistic tone, spewing on and on proves nothing. If you have any such evidence that these accusations you make are true, please present them under rule #10. Simply railing at unmentioned and unreferenced periodicals provides nothing positive except for those who need attention all the time.
    Follow the thread sport the links have already been provided:


    Web brigades - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Russia's Online-Comment Propaganda Army - The Atlantic
    Putin Paying People To Post Pro-Russia Propaganda In Comments - Business Insider
    http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/do...america#bsk7he

  10. #130
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    Re: What is the War in Ukraine about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    And your wrong again, a 50/50 split is not "his people", that's half his people. But good day Hays, I knew you couldn't be trusted for honesty in this.
    A) The only reason why he went with Russia is because as he was about to sign the agreement Russia waged an economic war against the Ukraine.

    B) It was a plurality if not a majority who supported entrance into the EU:

    Public opinion about Euromaidan

    According to December 2013 polls (by three different pollsters) between 45% and 50% of Ukrainians supported Euromaidan, while between 42% and 50% opposed it.[127][128][129] The biggest support for the protest can be found in Kiev (about 75%) and western Ukraine (more than 80%).[127][130] Among Euromaidan protesters, 55% are from the west of the country, with 24% from central Ukraine and 21% from the east.[131]

    In a poll taken on 7–8 December, 73% of protesters had committed to continue protesting in Kiev as long as needed until their demands are fulfilled.[6] This number has increased to 82% as of 3 February 2014.[131] Polls also show that the nation is divided in age: while majority of young people are pro-EU, older generations (50 and above) more often prefer the Customs Union of Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Russia.[132] More than 41% of protesters are ready to take part in the seizure of administrative buildings as of February, compared to 13 and 19 percent during polls on 10 and 20 December 2013. At the same time, more than 50 percent are ready to take part in the creation of independent military units, compared to 15 and 21 percent during the past studies, respectively.[131]
    Headquarters of the Euromaidan. At the front entrance there is a portrait of Stepan Bandera - fighter for the independence of Ukraine.

    According to a January poll, 45% of Ukrainians supported the protests, and 48% of Ukrainians disapproved of Euromaidan.[133]

    In a March poll, 57% of Ukrainians said they supported the Euromaidan protests.[134]

    Public opinion about joining the EU

    According to an August 2013 study by a Donetsk company, Research & Branding Group,[135] 49% of Ukrainians supported signing the Association Agreement, while 31% opposed it and the rest had not decided yet. However, in a December poll by the same company, only 30% claimed that terms of the Association agreement would be beneficial for the Ukrainian economy, while 39% said they were unfavourable for Ukraine. In the same poll, only 30% said the opposition would be able to stabilise the society and govern the country well, if coming to power, while 37% disagreed.[136]

    Authors of the GfK Ukraine poll conducted 2–15 October 2013 claim that 45% of respondents believed Ukraine should sign an Association Agreement with the EU, whereas only 14% favoured joining the Customs Union of Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Russia, and 15% preferred non-alignment. Full text of the EU-related question asked by GfK reads, "Should Ukraine sign the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement, and, in the future, become an EU member?"[137][138]

    Another poll conducted in November by IFAK Ukraine for DW-Trend showed 58% of Ukrainians supporting the country's entry into the European Union.[139] On the other hand a November 2013 poll by Kyiv International Institute of Sociology showed 39% supporting the country's entry into the European Union and 37% supporting Ukraine's accession to the Customs Union of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Russia.[140]
    Kyiv on 12 December: The Christmas tree on Independence square decorated by posters erected by demonstrators


    Euromaidan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Furthermore; the reason why opposition likely existed at all were the lies regarding the signing of the agreement proliferated by Russian propagandists.

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