View Poll Results: What is Putin's End Game?

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  • Russia will stop at Ukraine

    7 29.17%
  • Russia will continue

    11 45.83%
  • It'll eventually all blow over

    2 8.33%
  • It's the beginning stages of WWIII

    1 4.17%
  • Depends on whether the US engages ISIS

    1 4.17%
  • Other

    8 33.33%
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Thread: Putin's End Game?

  1. #21
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    Re: Putin's End Game?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    But if Putin pulls an "eastern Ukraine" on Latvia or Estonia and NATO does not react, NATO is dead. That would be the worst case.
    I dont think Belarus and Kazakhstan are ahead of the Baltics in regards to "voluntary" union with Russia. Both are non Nato and have signifcant Russian populations (Kazakhstan) or significant russified populations (Belarus).

    Putin has made several hints to Belarus over the years that full union with Russia was very desirable.

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    My guess is that Putin is testing his, or rather the West's, limits. So if he continues or not depends to a good part on our reaction. If our reaction hurts him and successfully sends the signal that we're strong and united enough to face Putin's challenge, he will settle for an option to save face. If not, he will take the next step soon. I doubt he has a clear-cut masterplan.
    My guess is the only thing Putin respects is force. Economic sanctions may hurt him.
    In the end, however, this is not about shuttered factories and played out mines in Donetsk.

    Ukraine is going to be absorbed unless it becomes too costly in the lives of Russian conscripts. This means arming Ukraine with modern weapons- espescially ATGMS.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 08-30-14 at 09:02 PM.

  2. #22
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    Re: Putin's End Game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    I know this is the current Right wing propaganda position, which makes no sense when you look a the facts.
    You seem more up on propaganda that me. I admit it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    But then you guys never do, do you. You are so indoctrinated with hate for the President that you have no desire to be confused with facts. Rand Paul, on the other hand, makes no secret of his admiration for Putin and the Russian position that nothing that happens anywhere in the world is the business of the United States.
    Anything to defend any and all actions using any and all methods it seems is more important with "you guys". Same old same old...
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #23
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    Re: Putin's End Game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    You seem more up on propaganda that me. I admit it.



    Anything to defend any and all actions using any and all methods it seems is more important with "you guys". Same old same old...
    Which doesn't alter the fact that Putin's position on the U.S. role in the world is completely in line with Putin's. Your Libertarian and the old Commie KGB thug. Who woulda thunk it?
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  4. #24
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    Re: Putin's End Game?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    If Russia eventually succeeds in taking over enough of the Ukraine to secure it's petroleum assets, will they invade another country?
    And if so, will the US or NATO actively attack them with a military offensive?
    If they attack a NATO country yes.

  5. #25
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    Re: Putin's End Game?

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    If they attack a NATO country yes.
    I'd assume so also, or at least put up some really serious sanctions and military defensive line. NATO just threatened more sanctions yesterday, while Russia is calling for the Ukraine to break up, with Russia annexing the Eastern and southern Crimea sections.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Putin's End Game?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I'd assume so also, or at least put up some really serious sanctions and military defensive line. NATO just threatened more sanctions yesterday, while Russia is calling for the Ukraine to break up, with Russia annexing the Eastern and southern Crimea sections.
    Putin is out of his mind, he's had power for so long that he thinks he can do anything.

  7. #27
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    Re: Putin's End Game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Russia isn't overly concerned with Ukraine's petroleum industry, what they want is to secure Ukraine as a satellite state with all the attendant benefits that provides. Where will they stop? I think if you see this as a long term process then no they wont stop at Ukraine. Transnistria and Moldova, Georgia and Azerbaijan, potential political bridges into Central and Southern Europe, and menacing the Baltic States all strike me as extremely plausible. Fully returning Ukraine to Russian orbit would put Russia back on the frontiers of Central Europe for the first time since 1991.
    So far, this remains the most logical and reasonable assessment of Putin's goals, which if anyone was paying attention was a promise he made in general terms in the last election. He had warned again and again against the US and NATO meddling in 'his' Ukraine and was ignored by an Obama administration desperate to make "The One" look like he knew what he was doing in the wake of his getting spanked over the Syria "attack" idea.

    Putin has always said his aim is to restore Russia's historical place in Europe and he is doing so.

    Russia has far more oil reserves than Ukraine, if anyone was lusting after those assets it would be an increasingly thirsty Western Europe, where alternative power is not proving as successful as hoped.

    In Russia, the actions of the US in Ukraine are likened to that of Russia having fomented dissent and an overthrow of an elected government in Canada and what would be the "legitimate" response of NATO and the US. And the analogy is not wrong. Russians and Ukrainians live side by side in the region, Russian heritage Ukrainians are in the majority in the east and Russian is far more prevalent than French is here.

    Putin wants Russia's "traditional" lands and now, with an incompetent rookie at the helm of the US, a nation spread across the glone hunting terrorists under rocks he sees an opportunity and he is succeeding.
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
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  8. #28
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    Re: Putin's End Game?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    If Russia eventually succeeds in taking over enough of the Ukraine to secure it's petroleum assets, will they invade another country?
    And if so, will the US or NATO actively attack them with a military offensive?
    Putin's only "end game" at this point is saving face. That's actually worse since now its his ego that has to be contended with.

  9. #29
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    Re: Putin's End Game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Putin's only "end game" at this point is saving face. That's actually worse since now its his ego that has to be contended with.
    He probably believes he can come out of this with a 'win, win', because of our perceived weakness. Though I'm sure he's keenly aware of how fast this all can turn sideways, and that he'd like to take whatever gains he's made and go back to normal trade for economical reasons and his ego's sake.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Putin's End Game?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    He probably believes he can come out of this with a 'win, win', because of our perceived weakness. Though I'm sure he's keenly aware of how fast this all can turn sideways, and that he'd like to take whatever gains he's made and go back to normal trade for economical reasons and his ego's sake.
    The perceived weakness is your own perception. The fact of the matter is that the combined efforts of the Western world's sanctions have given Putin a giant headache. Trust me, if he thought we were weak half as much as you like to believe, he would have just taken the damn country already. Instead, the ridiculous pat-a-cake actions he's taken over the course of the last four months means he's trying to figure out a way to finish what he's started without causing any more strife to himself, and not especially succeeding.

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