View Poll Results: What is Putin's End Game?

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  • Russia will stop at Ukraine

    7 29.17%
  • Russia will continue

    11 45.83%
  • It'll eventually all blow over

    2 8.33%
  • It's the beginning stages of WWIII

    1 4.17%
  • Depends on whether the US engages ISIS

    1 4.17%
  • Other

    8 33.33%
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Thread: Putin's End Game?

  1. #11
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    Re: Putin's End Game?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    How does not having Ukraine's petroleum reserves, especially in the West and Crimea not be an incentive for Russia? They pretty much rely on oil and gas economically, and the Ukraine is a direct connection to Europe's pipelines. I don't think few people would agree with that assessment, though they obviously want to regain as much of the former regions they once incorporated for power.
    It might be an incentive but it isn't their primary or even secondary motivation. Whether or not Ukraine was in their orbit is highly unlikely to effect whether they can ship gas to Ukraine or Europe considering both of the latter are hungry customers. Energy is probably a tertiary concern in this situation.

  2. #12
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    Re: Putin's End Game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    The more I read of Rand Paul's foreign policy positions, the more I think he and Vlad are sharing the same speech writer. They are indeed soul mates.
    Putin has a soul mate in this current administration.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #13
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    Re: Putin's End Game?

    Yes, Paul is the only GOP Presidential candidate running to the left of HRC and the rest of his GOP as a pre-WW2-type isolationist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    The more I read of Rand Paul's foreign policy positions, the more I think he and Vlad are sharing the same speech writer.
    They are indeed soul mates.
    Not to mention his daily rants on HRC, now back to Benghazi at the Koch head conferences.
    The same secret conferences since 2009.

    The one where Sen. McFilibuster was secretly taped a few days ago promising to shut down the gov't over a myriad of issues,
    with POLICY RIDERS as Majority Leader .
    Physics is Phun

  4. #14
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    Re: Putin's End Game?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    If Russia eventually succeeds in taking over enough of the Ukraine to secure it's petroleum assets, will they invade another country?
    And if so, will the US or NATO actively attack them with a military offensive?

    Russia subsidized Ukraine for the past 10 years in excess of $35 billion. Russia could have taken over Ukraine anytime. Lo and behold, instead Russia was helping them. Free money, discount gas, subsidies, and some moron insinuates that Russia/Putin wanted to conquer them? Get a grip, don't you think?

  5. #15
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    Re: Putin's End Game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Putin has a soul mate in this current administration.
    I know this is the current Right wing propaganda position, which makes no sense when you look a the facts. But then you guys never do, do you. You are so indoctrinated with hate for the President that you have no desire to be confused with facts. Rand Paul, on the other hand, makes no secret of his admiration for Putin and the Russian position that nothing that happens anywhere in the world is the business of the United States.
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

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  6. #16
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    Re: Putin's End Game?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Russia subsidized Ukraine for the past 10 years in excess of $35 billion. Russia could have taken over Ukraine anytime. Lo and behold, instead Russia was helping them. Free money, discount gas, subsidies, and some moron insinuates that Russia/Putin wanted to conquer them? Get a grip, don't you think?
    Thus speaketh Vladimir Putin's personal representative on this forum. You are so dependable.
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

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  7. #17
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    Re: Putin's End Game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    It might be an incentive but it isn't their primary or even secondary motivation. Whether or not Ukraine was in their orbit is highly unlikely to effect whether they can ship gas to Ukraine or Europe considering both of the latter are hungry customers. Energy is probably a tertiary concern in this situation.
    I just don't buy that because Russia pumps gas thru 5 major pipelines in the Ukraine.

    In 2007, 38.7% of the European Union's natural gas total imports and 24.3% of consumed natural gas originated from Russia. As of 2009, Russian natural gas was delivered to Europe through 12 pipelines, of which three were direct pipelines (to Finland, Estonia and Latvia), four through Belarus (to Lithuania and Poland) and five through Ukraine (to Slovakia, Romania, Hungary and Poland). In 2011, an additional pipeline, Nord Stream (directly to Germany through the Baltic Sea), opened.


    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Russia subsidized Ukraine for the past 10 years in excess of $35 billion. Russia could have taken over Ukraine anytime. Lo and behold, instead Russia was helping them. Free money, discount gas, subsidies, and some moron insinuates that Russia/Putin wanted to conquer them? Get a grip, don't you think?

    That was before we helped the majority of non Russian speaking civilians replace Viktor Yanukovych with a western favorable Petro Poroshenko. Putin has been putting the squeeze on Ukraine and using their resources for years.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  8. #18
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    Re: Putin's End Game?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Russia subsidized Ukraine for the past 10 years in excess of $35 billion. Russia could have taken over Ukraine anytime. Lo and behold, instead Russia was helping them.
    Nobody gives anything for "free"- and that goes triple for nations.

    Russia want Ukraine to revert to "little russia". Then they are going to push Belarus and Kazakhstan towards "voluntary" anchluss.

  9. #19
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    Re: Putin's End Game?

    My guess is that Putin is testing his, or rather the West's, limits. So if he continues or not depends to a good part on our reaction. If our reaction hurts him and successfully sends the signal that we're strong and united enough to face Putin's challenge, he will settle for an option to save face. If not, he will take the next step soon. I doubt he has a clear-cut masterplan.

    Should our reaction be underwhelming and give Putin the impression we're either too divided or cautious to draw a clear line, maybe the Baltics will be next. And they're the West's Achilles Verse -- allegedly almost impossible to defend. But if Putin pulls an "eastern Ukraine" on Latvia or Estonia and NATO does not react, NATO is dead. That would be the worst case.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  10. #20
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    Re: Putin's End Game?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    My guess is that Putin is testing his, or rather the West's, limits. So if he continues or not depends to a good part on our reaction. If our reaction hurts him and successfully sends the signal that we're strong and united enough to face Putin's challenge, he will settle for an option to save face. If not, he will take the next step soon. I doubt he has a clear-cut masterplan.

    Should our reaction be underwhelming and give Putin the impression we're either too divided or cautious to draw a clear line, maybe the Baltics will be next. And they're the West's Achilles Verse -- allegedly almost impossible to defend. But if Putin pulls an "eastern Ukraine" on Latvia or Estonia and NATO does not react, NATO is dead. That would be the worst case.
    I agree 100% that he's basically playing a game of poker. Though, I doubt even he believes that NATO will completely fold, but I'm sure he's hoping for it. I surmise, he's just going to ride this as far as he can, then cut his gains. Because he's had nothing to lose, so long as he doesn't push too hard, too fast and get an overwhelming response.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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