View Poll Results: What would you do?

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  • Switch the track

    17 56.67%
  • Let the train continue

    13 43.33%
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Thread: The Murder Dilemma (an ethics question)

  1. #71
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    Re: The Murder Dilemma (an ethics question)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Who the **** built this train and why aren't the tracks fixed?
    They are in the process of renovation and the crew is out for the day.
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    Re: The Murder Dilemma (an ethics question)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    In your scenario, a layperson has no knowledge of how many, or even if any, people will die.
    If a train with hundreds of people on board goes off the rails and flips on its side, it's a pretty safe guess that - at the very least - there will be a handful of deaths and quite a few severe injuries, wouldn't you say?

    Don't forget that a train of this size has the kinetic energy of a small atomic weapon.
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  3. #73
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    Re: The Murder Dilemma (an ethics question)

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    If a train with hundreds of people on board goes off the rails and flips on its side, it's a pretty safe guess that - at the very least - there will be a handful of deaths and quite a few severe injuries, wouldn't you say?

    Don't forget that a train of this size has the kinetic energy of a small atomic weapon.
    A good guess? Yes. Knowlege? No.

    And I have never heard your assessment of a train/energy/atomic weapon. I would never has assumed such a thing, and I dont even buy it now without proof. It may be but I'd never have thought of it.

    Miracles occur in every disaster...we all read about it...I would not assume I knew better or that people wouldnt survive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #74
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    Re: The Murder Dilemma (an ethics question)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And I have never heard your assessment of a train/energy/atomic weapon. I would never has assumed such a thing, and I dont even buy it now without proof. It may be but I'd never have thought of it.
    All it takes is a little math. Start with the weight of the train, add the weights of its passengers and crew, multiply by the square of its speed, and divide by 2 to get the kinetic energy.
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  5. #75
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    Re: The Murder Dilemma (an ethics question)

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    All it takes is a little math. Start with the weight of the train, add the weights of its passengers and crew, multiply by the square of its speed, and divide by 2 to get the kinetic energy.
    Well I'm certainly not going to be doing that math as I watch a train approaching, endangering all those people, now am I?

    So it's kind of a non-point. The point is...I dont know the result in loss of human life...cant, no one can. As far as I know, it might be none. Stranger things have happened, as have 'miracles,' whether the result of physics or God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  6. #76
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    Re: The Murder Dilemma (an ethics question)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Well I'm certainly not going to be doing that math as I watch a train approaching, endangering all those people, now am I?

    So it's kind of a non-point. The point is...I dont know the result in loss of human life...cant, no one can. As far as I know, it might be none. Stranger things have happened, as have 'miracles,' whether the result of physics or God.
    Granted that flukes happen, but if you make major decisions in expectation of them, you'll be spending all your money on lottery tickets.
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  7. #77
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    Re: The Murder Dilemma (an ethics question)

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    Granted that flukes happen, but if you make major decisions in expectation of them, you'll be spending all your money on lottery tickets.
    I am not responsible for the event you described in the OP. If I switch the track...I am responsible for the death of the single person on the tracks.

    If I do nothing, I am not responsible for deaths or injuries of the people on the train...I didnt cause the event. And I believe in letting those people take their chances...some will live, some may die or be injuried....but that is all up to chance. It's not set in stone and it's not my fault.

    Is it more fair that I 'decide' the chance for the single person? Hardly. Just ask him/her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  8. #78
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    Re: The Murder Dilemma (an ethics question)

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    Technically, if you flip that switch, you're murdering the person on the tracks, no matter how you look at it.
    There is a difference in justifiable homicide and murder. Any jury trying such a case would deem it to be J.H. Life isn't fair sometime. To save multiple lives and significant property loss -caused by derailing - this isn't much of a "moral dilemma" for a person who is physically able to control the outcome.

    As Moot has already stated...

    Where it would get a bit sticky - if the person who is in control has a loved one tied to the track. I doubt such a person could make a rational decision. If that person purposely saved the loved one - that would be murdering the passengers on board the train...not to mention immense property loss.

  9. #79
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    Re: The Murder Dilemma (an ethics question)

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    They are in the process of renovation and the crew is out for the day.
    What moron let the train run on that track in the first place? If anything it would be traveling towards the person tied to the tracks when this whole thing started...because those are the good tracks.
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    Re: The Murder Dilemma (an ethics question)

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    There is a difference in justifiable homicide and murder. Any jury trying such a case would deem it to be J.H. Life isn't fair sometime. To save multiple lives and significant property loss -caused by derailing - this isn't much of a "moral dilemma" for a person who is physically able to control the outcome.

    As Moot has already stated...

    Where it would get a bit sticky - if the person who is in control has a loved one tied to the track. I doubt such a person could make a rational decision. If that person purposely saved the loved one - that would be murdering the passengers on board the train...not to mention immense property loss.
    Are you saying that it's justifiable homicide if you dont know the single person on the tracks (and choose to kill them) but murder if it's a loved one and you choose to save them over the train occupants? How does that work? Just because you have a personal stake in the single person?

    In BOTH cases, you have a great deal at stake and in both cases, it has to do with personal emotional investment and choice and *ego* What will make YOU feel better...not necessarily what is 'best.' Hard to say what is best...most people seem to think it is the saving of as many lives as possible.

    Whether or not you know the single person on the tracks, IMO it can never be murder to do nothing and allow the train to continue to derail with the passengers. You did not create the situation and you cannot know the consequences in life and injury before the fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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