View Poll Results: If the USA is Going to Bomb ISIS in Syria Should the USA Work With Assad?

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Thread: If the USA is Going to Bomb ISIS in Syria Should the USA Work With Assad?

  1. #51
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    Re: If the USA is Going to Bomb ISIS in Syria Should the USA Work With Assad?

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    The moderates aren't willing to take the steps that lead to power and as such they would get slaughtered in short order.
    False.

    Moderates came out in droves to support a democratic revolution. It's not their fault that they have no weapons and Assad used chemical weapons to slaughter them.

    This is like blaming a child for not taking down a gang, in regard to power dynamics.

    Do you want to help defenseless people or not? From the beginning of the conflict:


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  2. #52
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    Re: If the USA is Going to Bomb ISIS in Syria Should the USA Work With Assad?

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    They lack the strength of will and willingness to use power and fear to ever take power. The moderates are the sheep among wolves and expecting the sheep to take over means expecting the wolves to stop being wolves - AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.
    Oh please. Are you claiming the moderates are sheep and the terrorists are the alpha males? What kind of idiocy is that? The moderates and terrorists are in the positions they are for one reason - power. Not because terrorists are intrinsically better than moderates.

  3. #53
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    Re: If the USA is Going to Bomb ISIS in Syria Should the USA Work With Assad?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    A democratic transitional government. Why does it need to be a cult of personality for you?
    Made up of who? ISIS?

    You want the US to go on another 15 year nation building exercise?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  4. #54
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    Re: If the USA is Going to Bomb ISIS in Syria Should the USA Work With Assad?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Made up of who? ISIS?
    You're denying the existence of moderates? You think everyone is Syria is a terrorist or supports mass-murdering dictatorship?

    You want the US to go on another 15 year nation building exercise?
    Better than 15 more years of innocent Syrians being slaughtered by terrorists and a mass-murdering dictator.


    But you don't really give a **** about Syrians, do you? As long as you have your x-box, Syrian women and children can live in torture and agony, it's no skin off your back.

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    Re: If the USA is Going to Bomb ISIS in Syria Should the USA Work With Assad?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    You're denying the existence of moderates? You think everyone is Syria is a terrorist or supports mass-murdering dictatorship?
    The moderates don't have the power to fight off ISIS. If you were being honest you'd know it too.

    Better than 15 more years of innocent Syrians being slaughtered by terrorists and a mass-murdering dictator.


    But you don't really give a **** about Syrians, do you? As long as you have your x-box, Syrian women and children can live in torture and agony, it's no skin off your back.
    That's not really the point, the point is what the United States can or should do. From a foreign policy standpoint, it's a disaster that wouldn't end well for us. If our last decade long nation-building had gone so well, ISIS wouldn't be in the position they're in.

    Do you not care about American soldiers? Because you're willing to have them slaughtered to save Syrians.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  6. #56
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    Re: If the USA is Going to Bomb ISIS in Syria Should the USA Work With Assad?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    The moderates don't have the power to fight off ISIS. If you were being honest you'd know it too.
    With the West's support, they will.

    That's not really the point, the point is what the United States can or should do. From a foreign policy standpoint, it's a disaster that wouldn't end well for us. If our last decade long nation-building had gone so well, ISIS wouldn't be in the position they're in.
    Nation building is tough, but fledgling democracies struggling against terrorists is better than genocidal dictatorship.

    Do you not care about American soldiers? Because you're willing to have them slaughtered to save Syrians.
    I served. I put my ass on the line, beyond the front line - airborne infantry.

    Did you?

    Don't lecture me about caring for the troops while you didn't have the balls to support them personally. You got the balls to talk **** now, right? But where were you when they needed you? So spare us the BS about how much more you care.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 08-29-14 at 05:56 PM.

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    Re: If the USA is Going to Bomb ISIS in Syria Should the USA Work With Assad?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    With the West's support, they will.
    They're doing so well in Iraq, aren't they?

    Nation building is tough, but fledgling democracies struggling against terrorists is better than genocidal dictatorship.
    That's all fine and good, but at this point there's two sides and neither are the good guys.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  8. #58
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    Re: If the USA is Going to Bomb ISIS in Syria Should the USA Work With Assad?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    False.

    Moderates came out in droves to support a democratic revolution. It's not their fault that they have no weapons and Assad used chemical weapons to slaughter them.

    This is like blaming a child for not taking down a gang, in regard to power dynamics.

    Do you want to help defenseless people or not? From the beginning of the conflict:

    Lets' start with my whole quote, instead of taking part of it out of context:
    The moderates aren't willing to take the steps that lead to power and as such they would get slaughtered in short order. This is an Arab/Persian nation where strength and power are what is respected. The people who lead these countries are not the reasonable people, they are the violent extremists because they are the ones willing to do whatever it takes to take and keep power. Remove one guy and the next most ambitious guy will step forward walking through the blood of the people who got in his way. That's the simple fact about Arab/Persian culture.
    Protestign doesn't get jack done in the Arab/Persian culture, taking what you want is what gets things done. Protests are meaningless unless you are willing to step and TAKE what the signs are asking for. Anything short of that is a waste of time for them.

    Please don't accuse me of not caring about the innocents in Syria, because I do care and have people that I know living there in fear of being killed by the extremists. All I'm doing is pointing out the reality of what's happening there. Sorry if that doesn't sit well with you , but without knowing the truth, your ideas are simply a waste of time. If you want to help those people, you have to change the culture or get them to willing to become what they are fighting against.
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

  9. #59
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    Re: If the USA is Going to Bomb ISIS in Syria Should the USA Work With Assad?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Oh please. Are you claiming the moderates are sheep and the terrorists are the alpha males? What kind of idiocy is that? The moderates and terrorists are in the positions they are for one reason - power. Not because terrorists are intrinsically better than moderates.
    You can tell that the moderates are the sheep by the simple fact that they are among those getting slaughtered instead of those doing the slaughtering.
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

  10. #60
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    Re: If the USA is Going to Bomb ISIS in Syria Should the USA Work With Assad?

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Protestign doesn't get jack done in the Arab/Persian culture,
    Tell that to Qaddafi and Mubarak.

    taking what you want is what gets things done.
    Now we're gonna denigrate the entire Arab and Persian "cultures" (read: people)?

    Protests are meaningless unless you are willing to step and TAKE what the signs are asking for. Anything short of that is a waste of time for them.
    We must take those steps. They are weaponless, powerless and under the tyranny of a mass-murdering dictator. What you're suggesting is like standing aside while a dog mauls a child and saying "well, the kid should have stood up for himself if he really believed in his freedom".

    Please don't accuse me of not caring about the innocents in Syria, because I do care and have people that I know living there in fear of being killed by the extremists.
    Fair enough, without your qualifications.

    All I'm doing is pointing out the reality of what's happening there. Sorry if that doesn't sit well with you , but without knowing the truth, your ideas are simply a waste of time. If you want to help those people, you have to change the culture or get them to willing to become what they are fighting against.
    We do not need to ask Syrians to become terrorists for their freedom. We need to support moderates in the creation of a democratic transitional government, for which a constitution including human rights will be written.

    Without human rights and representation, we'll be in the same place any number of years from now. It's about time Syria began developing and joined us in the developed world. It will require generations and the longer we wait to get started the more difficult it will be.

    For example: the US underestimated the damage Saddam had done to Iraq's social capital. After he was removed from power his party was disbanded and barred. The West expected other players to come to the table, but guess what... they were all dead. There was no other trained social servants to be found. Saddam had killed (or caused to flee) just about every last free critical thinking professional in the country. The utter destruction of Iraq's social capital is the cause of what we see today with ISIS. The "power vacuum" is not so much a Dear Leader as it is a capacity and social infrastructure to maintain human rights.

    It will take a generation or two for Iraq to regrow that social capital (especially given the post-war brain drain). In the meantime, it will not be easy. But when we get there, us and the Iraqis together, it will have been worth it.

    The Syrians deserve to join us.

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