View Poll Results: If something is a tradition, should laws must reflect it?

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    32 86.49%
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Thread: Traditions

  1. #61
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    Re: Traditions

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    With that first line you sound eerily like Dolores Umbridge



    Traditions are a good thing but only if they still are applicable to this day and age, good traditions should be held in high regard and should be nurtured but we should not dwell on bad traditions that have disappeared in the annals of history. But we should not disregard or forget the bad traditions because he who forgets the bad things from his past is doomed to repeat them. The same goes for countries IMHO.

    Anti-semitism or hatred of Jews should not be nurtured because it is an evil tradition, but we should never forget or ignore it because we can not accept or rationalize hatred of Jews, it must be fought with all possible means.
    Is there a difference between what you said and I said? Why invoke some villain from a child book?
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  2. #62
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    Re: Traditions

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    Is there a difference between what you said and I said? Why invoke some villain from a child book?
    The first comparison was a bit of a joke, not meant to mean anything but for some reason, an image sprang up in mind mind from the words you spoke. I have read and heard that book and line so many times that it just sounded a bit like it.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

  3. #63
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    Re: Traditions

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    Except that it wasn't a "blind leap." Plenty of seemingly reasonable arguments had been written in favor of it by the first revolution.
    All of which were, again, completely wrong, and relied more upon wildly unrealistic appeals to idealistic ideology than anything factual.

    That's precisely the problem with the "progressivist" mindset in general. It leaps to conclusions first, and worries about trying to justify them later.

    Gath, if you honestly believe that czarist Russia and the pre-1949 Republic of China "worked just fine," you desperately need to crack a couple of history books.
    Are you honestly going to argue that the Soviet Union or Mao were better?

  4. #64
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    Re: Traditions

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    All of which were, again, completely wrong, and relied more upon wildly unrealistic appeals to idealistic ideology than anything factual.

    That's precisely the problem with the "progressivist" mindset in general. It leaps to conclusions first, and worries about trying to justify them later.
    Are you honestly going to argue that Karl Marx was nothing more than an idealist? His theories had plenty of flaws but were hardly simplistic.

    Are you honestly going to argue that the Soviet Union or Mao were better?
    Marginally so - which of course is not saying much.
    I fight against the ignorant, irresponsible, and/or closed-minded.
    This group is the worst enemy of America and its freedoms. It includes, but is not limited to, all Trump supporters.

  5. #65
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    Re: Traditions

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    Are you honestly going to argue that Karl Marx was nothing more than an idealist? His theories had plenty of flaws but were hardly simplistic.
    Pretty much, yes. Basically none of the man's ideas were grounded in reality, but rather abstract ideology built upon Enlightenment era philosophical fluff.

    They have failed just about everywhere they have been tried, for exactly that reason.

    Marginally so - which of course is not saying much.
    Neither Republican China nor Tsarist Russia were responsible for butchering their own populations by the tens of millions.

    The simple fact of the matter is that "Revolution" was never necessary to bring those societies forward in the first place. More moderate, and incremental means could have achieved similar or better results, without the needless bloodshed and barbarity Mao or the USSR inflicted.

  6. #66
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    Re: Traditions

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    No, because there's no benefit in it. Which side of the road is arbitrary. If there were a benefit, then that we drive on the right now would be no reason to continue. A better example is the metric system. We SHOULD use the metric system, but we don't because we're used to the English system. Tradition is holding us back.



    You don't know any actual history, do you? (Quote edited to the most hilariously faulty statements) Most notably that you think any society in the 20th century was more horrific than any society in the 14th century. Or the 8th. Or pretty much every single one before the 20th. Higher bodycount from higher population amounts to squat. Vlad the Impaler or Genghis Khan, some very traditional guys, were far worse than Stalin, Hitler, and Mao combined. Not to mention centuries of Roman brutality. And for any progressive rhetoric those three espoused, their methods were rooted in tradition. Especially Hitler. The whole "Third Reich" thing was specifically to invoke traditions of the past.



    Sounds to me like good ideas are good and past adoption of an idea has nothing to do with the merits of an idea. Evaluating all ideas is necessary. That we've done something in the past seems to make no difference at all. Those nuggets of truth will shine through of their own accord. They don't need any deference due to history.



    A call for caution from a disadvantaged group carries no weight. That's kind of the whole point of disadvantage. I'm not really sure what you're getting at.
    But why shouldn't we switch to driving on the left side of the road, in your opinion?

  7. #67
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    Re: Traditions

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    I'm not seeing a counter argument here.

    In any case, yes, I think most Americans, and most human beings in general, for that matter, could probably be aptly described as being "horrendously stupid." They also have a bad tendency to fall for whatever "new thing" happens to come along, so long as it is being peddled by a charismatic charlatan with a talent for pulling public heart-strings.
    I think I'm starting to understand why people like you and Palecon believe with all your hearts that we'd be better off tyrannically (but supposedly beneficently) ruled by a theocracy (as much as Palecon claims his ideas arent that). That we MUST be ruled by a higher power because we are certainly incapable of doing so ourselves.

    Interesting. It's a very Catholic point of view.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  8. #68
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    Re: Traditions

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    So? Merely I'm using it as an argumentative tool does not mean it that Jew hating isn't real or a tradition.
    It's a dodge.
    It's okay to be white

  9. #69
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    Re: Traditions

    Tradition is okay until society has no further use for them Should laws reflect tradition just because it is a tradition, absolutely not.
    It's okay to be white

  10. #70
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    Re: Traditions

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I think I'm starting to understand why people like you and Palecon believe with all your hearts that we'd be better off tyrannically (but supposedly beneficently) ruled by a theocracy (as much as Palecon claims his ideas arent that). That we MUST be ruled by a higher power because we are certainly incapable of doing so ourselves.

    Interesting. It's a very Catholic point of view.
    If a theocracy could actually work as theoretically intended (i.e. rule by God), it would be, pretty much by default, the most perfect and beneficial form of government in existence. It would be nothing less than direct rule by creator of the Universe; an incorruptible and all-powerful being who knows and understands quite literally everything there is to know and understand about the problems humanity might potentially face in this world.

    Unfortunately, however (on this Earth, anyway), that is not an option. The best we have available are human beings who seek to interpret the will of God.

    In that vein, no, I don't necessarily believe that theocracy is the "best" form of government, simply because men are corruptible, and power is the thing most likely to do so. It is ultimately best to leave religious authorities to govern religious affairs, so that they may avoid that temptation.

    However, this is not to say that I favor an amoral and anarchic "free for all" either. Some degree of centralized social, moral, and governmental organization is necessary simply to keep society in good working order.

    Where that is concerned, cautious change, which is mindful of the lessons tradition teaches, tends to be preferable to reckless change which seeks to ignore or supplant the pre-existing order entirely.

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