View Poll Results: What percentage of climate change do you believe or know is man made?

Voters
237. You may not vote on this poll
  • 00.01% - 20%

    22 9.28%
  • 20.01% - 40%

    19 8.02%
  • 40.01% - 60%

    21 8.86%
  • 60.01% - 80%

    31 13.08%
  • 80.01% - 100%

    75 31.65%
  • I don't know the percentage,but think/know man-made climate change is happening

    48 20.25%
  • I believe/know climate change is a 100% natural.

    10 4.22%
  • Not sure what kind of climate change is going on.

    6 2.53%
  • I do not believe in natural or man-made climate change.Climate never changes.

    5 2.11%
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Thread: What percentage of climate change do you believe or know is man made?

  1. #41
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    Re: What percentage of climate change do you believe or know is man made?

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    "Major influence?" That's like saying that salt has a major influence on the saltiness of food. Water vapor is the biggest GG there is by orders of magnitude. Put it on a Pareto chart and every other GG falls into the "insignificant" category. ANY study which exclude water vapor for ANY reason should be questioned strongly as to it's objectivity and accuracy.

    The source you provided excludes H2O, uses projections and computer modeling and is NOT what I asked for. Just show me a study that shows the impact of all anthropogenic GGs (INCLUDING H2O). Shouldn't this be the starting point of EVERY study?? If a study doesn't have references to this information and use them frequently, it should be questioned strongly. This is where ALL GG research should be starting, shouldn't it??


    BTW - Your link = "Page cannot be found." It's got an extra "http//" in it.
    In other words, the science that is pretty much accepted by all the scientists in the field, isnt good enough for you, a total amateur, with virtually no experience in the study of climate science (I'm guessing here, but I think we all can see its a pretty educated guess).

    That says a whole lot more about you then it does about them.
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  2. #42
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    Re: What percentage of climate change do you believe or know is man made?

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    In other words, the science that is pretty much accepted by all the scientists in the field, isnt good enough for you, a total amateur, with virtually no experience in the study of climate science (I'm guessing here, but I think we all can see its a pretty educated guess).

    That says a whole lot more about you then it does about them.
    Lets see what we can agree on:

    Should the percentage of impact that anthropogenic GGs have be the starting point of this research??
    Can we agree on that?? It's pretty basic stuff. The kind of thing that every climate researcher on the planet should be able to give us from memory. How about it? Can we agree that this should be the foundation that all research into manmade CC should based on?
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  3. #43
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    Re: What percentage of climate change do you believe or know is man made?

    Quote Originally Posted by falcata View Post
    All of that data is from the early 2000's and late 1990's. I don't even think that research was peer-reviewed, considering it came from a stone-age website devoted to "West Virginia Plan Fossils"
    The calculations are complete horse**** because the site totally ignores natural absorption of CO2 when it comes up with the "natural emissions" numbers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: What percentage of climate change do you believe or know is man made?

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    I don't need a degree to know when someone with a doctorate in mathematics makes an addition error, I just need to understand the fundamentals of math.
    You weren't able to spot the massive error in the link you provided.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  5. #45
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    Re: What percentage of climate change do you believe or know is man made?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    You weren't able to spot the massive error in the link you provided.
    Would you please so kind as to point it out???
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

  6. #46
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    Re: What percentage of climate change do you believe or know is man made?

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    So show us where it's wrong, instead of just spitballing...
    I'm not a climate scientist, but I'll try my best.

    The worst part about refuting that research is that the references are more up to date than the research itself is. That's pretty bad.

    I'm going to address it's reference 5) first since that is the most prominent basis to the study.

    2nd: http://http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Reference_Docs/PMichaels_Jun98.pdf

    5th: http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Re...ate_Change.pdf

    6th: ecoEnquirer: EPA Seeks To Have Water Vapor Classified As A Pollutant

    The first source required me to be a registered user to view.

    The second source was published in 1998 by Washington university's center for the study of American Business. I could not find any other instance in which this piece was cited. The piece doesn't so much debunk humanity's contribution to global warming as much as criticize the Kyoto Protocol.

    The third source I couldn't find whatever information they referenced for H20

    The fourth source I couldn't locate for public viewing

    The fifth did not infer that water vapor whether or not is largely or entirely natural.

    The sixth was just a random article online that itself didn't have any sources.

    The seventh supports his claim but again is just a random study online

    I'm honestly just going to stop here because this study cites basically zero primary documents in the most important part of its research.
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  7. #47
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    Re: What percentage of climate change do you believe or know is man made?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    The calculations are complete horse**** because the site totally ignores natural absorption of CO2 when it comes up with the "natural emissions" numbers.
    You could throw out CO2 completely and you'd never notice any difference, since the amount of impact that CO2 has is less than the annual statistical variation in the GG effect.

    I don't suppose that you could provide us with a study that shows the total impact of anthropogenic GGs that includes H2O. No one else seems to be able to do so (actually I should be more patient, such an esoteric piece of information may be very hard to come by), so maybe you're the one who can provide us with this information.
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

  8. #48
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    Re: What percentage of climate change do you believe or know is man made?

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Lets see what we can agree on:

    Should the percentage of impact that anthropogenic GGs have be the starting point of this research??
    Can we agree on that?? It's pretty basic stuff. The kind of thing that every climate researcher on the planet should be able to give us from memory. How about it? Can we agree that this should be the foundation that all research into manmade CC should based on?
    I suppose so... but whats the point? You think the proof that no one can find this on a simple internet search totally dismisses the massive amount of scientiific research that has gone on in this area?

    And I beleive the info you are looking for is in the IPCC. I'd find it, but I dont really feel like doing your homework.
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  9. #49
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    Re: What percentage of climate change do you believe or know is man made?

    Climate change is real, some of it is down to cyclic climate issues but I think a large part is down to the changes we have been causing.
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  10. #50
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    Re: What percentage of climate change do you believe or know is man made?

    Quote Originally Posted by falcata View Post
    I'm not a climate scientist, but I'll try my best.

    The worst part about refuting that research is that the references are more up to date than the research itself is. That's pretty bad.

    I'm going to address it's reference 5) first since that is the most prominent basis to the study.

    2nd: http://http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Reference_Docs/PMichaels_Jun98.pdf

    5th: http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Re...ate_Change.pdf

    6th: ecoEnquirer: EPA Seeks To Have Water Vapor Classified As A Pollutant

    The first source required me to be a registered user to view.

    The second source was published in 1998 by Washington university's center for the study of American Business. I could not find any other instance in which this piece was cited. The piece doesn't so much debunk humanity's contribution to global warming as much as criticize the Kyoto Protocol.

    The third source I couldn't find whatever information they referenced for H20

    The fourth source I couldn't locate for public viewing

    The fifth did not infer that water vapor whether or not is largely or entirely natural.

    The sixth was just a random article online that itself didn't have any sources.

    The seventh supports his claim but again is just a random study online

    I'm honestly just going to stop here because this study cites basically zero primary documents in the most important part of its research.
    The first reference (which you skipped for some reason) is a link to CDIAC, one of the best resources available for GG concentrations and even it leaves out H2O.

    The second link does spend a lot of time debunking Kyoto, but it also uses a LOT fo solid science (well referenced) to back up it's critiques.

    The third link takes us back to CDIAC.

    The fourth link takes us to a chart showing the warming potentials of various Halocarbons and GGs

    The fifth link takes us to a article critical of Anthropogenic Climate Change and shows numerous well referenced charts that show the impact of anthropogenic GGs.

    I've gone through EVERY one of these links and taken the time to read them. It's why I no longer believe in anthropogenic climate change. Because I got educated using a lot of primary source material which is used in both the article I linked to and in the articles referenced in it). I used to think that we were causing climate change and one day a friend of mine pointed me to this site and I then spent every lunch hour for over six months going through this stuff, looking for the holes in it and I honestly could not do it. I'll freely admit that some of the articles cited have an ax to grind, but they do so with good science. It's one of the things that impressed me about them - they use hard science and not projections or models. You spent a good solid three minutes scanning a couple of sites and came to a conclusion without making any effort to look at the information objectively. Try it again, this time putting in the effort and keeping an open mind.
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

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