View Poll Results: Do you favor putting boots on the ground in the Midddle East to combat the threat?

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  • Yes

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Thread: Do you favor putting boots on the ground in the Midddle East to combat the threat?

  1. #21
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    Re: Do you favor putting boots on the ground in the Midddle East to combat the threa

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Yeah.

    And why is it that they haven't seemed to have done so, yet?
    I think major terrorist attacks are much more difficult to accomplish than the doom-and-gloomers like to admit.
    You'd think the terrorists would be machine-gunning Americans in the streets.
    Nothing......hell, our own citizens massacre more of their fellow American's than the jihadists.
    No matter how cynical I become toward politicians, it's never enough.

  2. #22
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    Re: Do you favor putting boots on the ground in the Midddle East to combat the threa

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    You have a good point. However, when in history has Europe come to our aid like that. The Britts came close in Iraq, but then backed out quick. Germany and especially France will never do so. Australia (although not European) would be there but not in the numbers we would need because of their local politics.

    NATO action would be the only chance of getting a large number of other nations to participate, but... Turkey is neck deep in subterfuge in the ISIS mess already, and would potentially destabilize a NATO mission to the ME. And, forget action in Ukraine. No European country will go up against Russia as long as the current Administration is in power. They can't rely that we would stick it out, much less do all that is required in the mean time. Red lines mean nothing. Withdrawal dates published to the enemy are incongruent with winning a war. I could go on, but you get my meaning.
    You are certainly right on the European score card. The largest European country has never paid its dues. That has meant that the others have be loath to pay in full, especially as they are in head on competition with Germany within the EU and cannot afford to spend much, because that money reduces their competitiveness economically.

    But There we are running into a problem. The US cannot go on this way. Sure, it could do the boots in Kiev and Damascus and Mosul thing and beat the Islamists with relative ease. But it would cost 5.000 lives, 20.000 wounded, 30.000 temporarily deranged and $ 3 Trillion. Sure, it can still pay that. But we are nearing the end of that method of installing security. We will need a global approach and architecture and until then, we should keep as much powder dry as possible.

    So, if we want to clean that field, we should think no troops but mean weapons. The war crimes stuff is going to go down the drain anyway, if we do not sort out the global security issue, because in the growing wars to come that dam will break, when one or another nation, dictator or warlord thinks it can save it self from the engorging flames. But to do this, we will have to be very clear on the point that the emerging multipolar system need stopping and that the UN or some other Organization had better deal with everyone's security or everyone will be dealing with what he considers dangers to his national security with whatever means he has.

    This pressure on the international community is important and hopefully it is a wake-up call to the populations and their leaders. Because time is running low for a deal of the type necessary. As a matter of fact, it may very easily be too late already. The upside on that would be that it will then have made no difference, what we did.
    Last edited by joG; 08-24-14 at 05:09 AM.

  3. #23
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    Re: Do you favor putting boots on the ground in the Midddle East to combat the threa

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    The governments in that region are so unstable that the soldiers can't trust that the next guy in power tomorrow won't be one of the enemy that they're fighting today. That's why they turn and run. Not because they are cowards, but because one day they're fighting Sunni's and the next day they may be saluting them.. or if that happens, being beheaded by them. Many of those folks are fierce warriors, but they can't trust that the guy they are taing orders from will be their tomorrow to protect their families.

    We can't rely on them either. If we are going to do anything, we have to do as we did at that dam, and use them as perimeter defense, not direct attack.

    The only exception to this would be the Kurds, but every other power in that region - Iraqi, Iranian, Syrian, Russian, Turkish, etc. - hates the Kurds. It's just a matter of time before they are attacked by other powers as well.
    The only soldiers that I know turned and ran were the Iraqis military. Still, there are a number of militias within Iraq fighting ISIL, most formidably the Kurds.

    Iraq is literally surrounded by Iran, Syria, Jordan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait. Again, none of those countries like ISIL one bit. And, aside from Syria, they are stable. Not to mention Israel would be threatened by ISIL if they were able to fly through Syria or Jordan.

    ISIL will be a threat to those countries long before they are a threat to us, that is, on a real scale. (We need to secure our borders so a small team does not sneak into our country.) I suspect they will clamp down before long. If you scan the news, you will see these countries are growing more and more concerned. As crazy as ISIL is, they simply don't have the numbers to fight off powerful nations on all sides and militias from within.

    So what we need to do is encourage those nations to jump into the fray. We need to arm and supply the Kurds, as well as support their independence and let them sell oil. And finally we need to take out the ISIL supply lines and oil supplies.
    "I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." -Thomas Sowell

  4. #24
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    Re: Do you favor putting boots on the ground in the Midddle East to combat the threa

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfoot 88 View Post
    The only soldiers that I know turned and ran were the Iraqis military. Still, there are a number of militias within Iraq fighting ISIL, most formidably the Kurds.

    Iraq is literally surrounded by Iran, Syria, Jordan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait. Again, none of those countries like ISIL one bit. And, aside from Syria, they are stable. Not to mention Israel would be threatened by ISIL if they were able to fly through Syria or Jordan.

    ISIL will be a threat to those countries long before they are a threat to us, that is, on a real scale. (We need to secure our borders so a small team does not sneak into our country.) I suspect they will clamp down before long. If you scan the news, you will see these countries are growing more and more concerned. As crazy as ISIL is, they simply don't have the numbers to fight off powerful nations on all sides and militias from within.

    So what we need to do is encourage those nations to jump into the fray. We need to arm and supply the Kurds, as well as support their independence and let them sell oil. And finally we need to take out the ISIL supply lines and oil supplies.
    Very good points. The only thing I would ad is that we cannot just send arms and perform air strikes. Turkey is neck deep, with certain factions in Turkey helping ISIS and sending fighters to aid them... they're a NATO country. And, I would also ad that a military type attack on the US is not the only threat that ISIS posses to the US - yes - oil security. A destabilized ME destabilizes the world's economy, and that translates to more poverty and more unrest here at home, at the very least.

    We have to look at these events from a broad spectrum long term impact point of view.

    Oh... and YES!!! Kurd independence is a must. I spent a lot of time with the Kurds. Great people. GREAT people.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

  5. #25
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    Re: Do you favor putting boots on the ground in the Midddle East to combat the threa

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    You are certainly right on the European score card. The largest European country has never paid its dues. That has meant that the others have be loath to pay in full, especially as they are in head on competition with Germany within the EU and cannot afford to spend much, because that money reduces their competitiveness economically.

    But There we are running into a problem. The US cannot go on this way. Sure, it could do the boots in Kiev and Damascus and Mosul thing and beat the Islamists with relative ease. But it would cost 5.000 lives, 20.000 wounded, 30.000 temporarily deranged and $ 3 Trillion. Sure, it can still pay that. But we are nearing the end of that method of installing security. We will need a global approach and architecture and until then, we should keep as much powder dry as possible.

    So, if we want to clean that field, we should think no troops but mean weapons. The war crimes stuff is going to go down the drain anyway, if we do not sort out the global security issue, because in the growing wars to come that dam will break, when one or another nation, dictator or warlord thinks it can save it self from the engorging flames. But to do this, we will have to be very clear on the point that the emerging multipolar system need stopping and that the UN or some other Organization had better deal with everyone's security or everyone will be dealing with what he considers dangers to his national security with whatever means he has.

    This pressure on the international community is important and hopefully it is a wake-up call to the populations and their leaders. Because time is running low for a deal of the type necessary. As a matter of fact, it may very easily be too late already. The upside on that would be that it will then have made no difference, what we did.
    Well put.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

  6. #26
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    Re: Do you favor putting boots on the ground in the Midddle East to combat the threa

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    So youi would rather fight them here.
    They wouldnt be fighting us if we didnt attack them to begin with.

  7. #27
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    Re: Do you favor putting boots on the ground in the Midddle East to combat the threa

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    They wouldnt be fighting us if we didnt attack them to begin with.
    That is very optimistic, indeed. In a world as interconnected as ours now is, the frictions will occur all over the place and where you don't expect them. The way world security is shaped and shaping up, the war will come to us. And it will not make any difference, what we do. We can only prolong the relative security we enjoy, if we do not solve the fundamental problem of the dynamic.

  8. #28
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    Re: Do you favor putting boots on the ground in the Midddle East to combat the threa

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    That is very optimistic, indeed. In a world as interconnected as ours now is, the frictions will occur all over the place and where you don't expect them. The way world security is shaped and shaping up, the war will come to us. And it will not make any difference, what we do. We can only prolong the relative security we enjoy, if we do not solve the fundamental problem of the dynamic.
    We can put an end to this endless conflict if we really wanted to- all we have to do is pull back, its as simple as that.

  9. #29
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    Re: Do you favor putting boots on the ground in the Midddle East to combat the threa

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    We can put an end to this endless conflict if we really wanted to- all we have to do is pull back, its as simple as that.
    Optimism is a fine feeling. It is also fun to see.

  10. #30
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    Re: Do you favor putting boots on the ground in the Midddle East to combat the threa

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Optimism is a fine feeling. It is also fun to see.
    Im afraid youve got it all backwards, my views are based on realism, the optimists are the ones who think we can win the war on terror.

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