View Poll Results: Does the US have a moral responsibility to combat ISIS

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  • Yes, it's a moral imperative.

    17 33.33%
  • No, they're not a threat yet worthy of confrontation

    3 5.88%
  • Yes, but only in a limited and supporting role.

    16 31.37%
  • No, it's none of our business

    19 37.25%
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Thread: Does the US have a moral responsibility to help combat ISIS?

  1. #91
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    Re: Does the US have a moral responsibility to help combat ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    You mean Kurds and Marsh Arabs?
    How are they getting along with ISIS these days?
    I may be wrong.

  2. #92
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    Re: Does the US have a moral responsibility to help combat ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Al-Anfal Campaign - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    And that's not all he did to the Kurds.
    I'm not surprised you followed up an "informationclearinghouse" article with a pic. Real strong evidence there.
    Halabja chemical attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "The Halabja attack has been recognized as a separate event from the Anfal Genocide that was also conducted against the Kurdish people by the Iraqi regime under Saddam Hussein.[6]"
    I may be wrong.

  3. #93
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    Re: Does the US have a moral responsibility to help combat ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    No, it's not.



    "Anything could be" is not an argument.
    Which is why I didn't make that argument.

    I said that ISIS would be worse than Saddam if/when they had equivalent power. Because IMO their idea of how to run a place is far worse than Saddam's was, as bad as he indeed was.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Does the US have a moral responsibility to help combat ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Is there any lesson to be learned from the way that invading Iraq turned it into and even bigger godawful cluster**** than it was?

    Or is that the kind of history that bears repeating?
    The Middle East, with it's secular strife, has been a cluster**** for thousands of years. I agree that it may not have been the best of decisions to go in their militarily, however, once 9/11 happened, would couldn't afford to NOT go in there militarily in a substantive way.

    The US didn't have a substantive response to our African embassies being bombed prior, and this lack of response begat the 9/11 attack. I shudder to think what a lack of response to 9/11 would have begat.

    And you could go further back. Had not the tragedy of Black Hawk down in Somalia never happened, and the subsequent withdraw in the face of the Somali war lord's opposition, the perception of the US being weak may never have been started.

    So 20/20 hindsight is always a losing game, and the situation is now what it is. Do we wait for major western countries to fall and / or come into major conflict with ISIS before we intervene? When ISIS's power is greater? Or do we try to preempt and thwart ISIS before they gain too much power? A difficult choice to make.

    Fundamental tactics is to not fight on the ground and time of your enemy's choosing, but on the ground and timing of your choosing.
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

  5. #95
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    Re: Does the US have a moral responsibility to help combat ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Is there any lesson to be learned from the way that invading Iraq turned it into and even bigger godawful cluster**** than it was?

    Or is that the kind of history that bears repeating?
    Next time we go in with the clear and sole objective of eliminating ISIS, no nation building or anything.

    That waste lesson,the lesson was not never go in. The lesson was to have precise intelligence, will, determination, and a SOLE CLEAR OBJECTIVE.

    Now of course the easiest way of doing all that is nuke dropping.
    -----MOS 19D = cavalry scout = best damn MOS there is

  6. #96
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    Re: Does the US have a moral responsibility to help combat ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Do we wait for major western countries to fall and / or come into major conflict with ISIS before we intervene? When ISIS's power is greater? Or do we try to preempt and thwart ISIS before they gain too much power?
    Without trading partners it is unlikely that ISIS will be able to govern in the long term let alone engage in imperialism.
    Additionally, the area's petro infrastructure was **** under Saddam and has been variously looted, sabotaged, and neglected since then.
    "Big Oil" has not been back into Iraq for quite some time because it has not been stable enough to risk the billions in capital it will take to fix Iraq's petro infrastructure.
    No money means no empire.
    They're not going to topple a "major Western country".
    they will do an even crappier job of keeping their people fed and the lights on than Hussein did.

    Why shouldn't some other "major western country" step up and engage in a "major conflict with ISIS"?
    Why should we be in a rush to prevent that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    Next time we go in with the clear and sole objective of eliminating ISIS, no nation building or anything.
    We went into Iraq with plans to be out in six months.
    We actually planned on being able to skip planning for the nation building part.
    The plan was for Iraq to behave like Eastern Europe after the fall of the USSR.
    So going in w/o a nation building plan doesn't make you plan that much different.
    Find and replace "Saddam Hussein" for "ISIS"...terrorists, 911, wmd, badabing bada boom--brand new war plan.
    Last edited by Simon W. Moon; 08-27-14 at 12:45 AM.
    I may be wrong.

  7. #97
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    Re: Does the US have a moral responsibility to help combat ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Without trading partners it is unlikely that ISIS will be able to govern in the long term let alone engage in imperialism.
    Additionally, the area's petro infrastructure was **** under Saddam and has been variously looted, sabotaged, and neglected since then.
    "Big Oil" has not been back into Iraq for quite some time because it has not been stable enough to risk the billions in capital it will take to fix Iraq's petro infrastructure.
    No money means no empire.
    They're not going to topple a "major Western country".
    they will do an even crappier job of keeping their people fed and the lights on than Hussein did.

    Why shouldn't some other "major western country" step up and engage in a "major conflict with ISIS"?
    Why should we be in a rush to prevent that?


    We went into Iraq with plans to be out in six months.
    We actually planned on being able to skip planning for the nation building part.
    The plan was for Iraq to behave like Eastern Europe after the fall of the USSR.
    So going in w/o a nation building plan doesn't make you plan that much different.
    Find and replace "Saddam Hussein" for "ISIS"...terrorists, 911, wmd, badabing bada boom--brand new war plan.
    Quote me entirely, I said we need will as well.

    The will to stick to the plan no matter what, not forge new ones out our ass like Iraq 2003.
    -----MOS 19D = cavalry scout = best damn MOS there is

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    Re: Does the US have a moral responsibility to help combat ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    That's why our economy is so rockin'--we've had two wars going for years to gin our economy up?

    With this kind of prosperity, who needs hardship?

    The US military is a Public-Private partnership that directly and especially indirectly employs or leads to the employment of tens of millions of Americans. For every 5 US military employees there are probably at minimum 20 US citizens somehow employed through contracts that wouldn't exist for their companies without US military sponsorship. Many Americans simply don't grasp this.

    The truth is a great number of private sector US workers aren't actually private sector. Their companies exist thanks to business dealings with the US military.

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    Re: Does the US have a moral responsibility to help combat ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Without trading partners it is unlikely that ISIS will be able to govern in the long term let alone engage in imperialism.
    Additionally, the area's petro infrastructure was **** under Saddam and has been variously looted, sabotaged, and neglected since then.
    "Big Oil" has not been back into Iraq for quite some time because it has not been stable enough to risk the billions in capital it will take to fix Iraq's petro infrastructure.
    No money means no empire.
    They're not going to topple a "major Western country".
    they will do an even crappier job of keeping their people fed and the lights on than Hussein did.
    And all these reasons are why there were so uprisings during the Saddam regime, right? North Korea, and even Iran to some extent, are similar pariah in the world, yet they have trading partners, though many times by extortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Why shouldn't some other "major western country" step up and engage in a "major conflict with ISIS"?
    Why should we be in a rush to prevent that?
    Some EU nations have started to make noise and / or action in that direction, but we do have the largest, best funded, best equipped and best trained troops around. We are one of the last of the super powers left standing, hopefully to remain so, but that's yet to be seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    We went into Iraq with plans to be out in six months.
    We actually planned on being able to skip planning for the nation building part.
    The plan was for Iraq to behave like Eastern Europe after the fall of the USSR.
    So going in w/o a nation building plan doesn't make you plan that much different.
    Find and replace "Saddam Hussein" for "ISIS"...terrorists, 911, wmd, badabing bada boom--brand new war plan.
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

  10. #100
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    Re: Does the US have a moral responsibility to help combat ISIS?

    I think we, as the strongest military power in the world, should be using our military power to protect people from violence before any other duty. If we want to claim the moral high ground, then we ought to be intervening to save people from the massacres that ISIS is carrying out. Humanitarian intervention is one of the few reasons that fighting can be noble.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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