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Thread: Ukraine Says It Destroyed Russian Vehicles That Entered Territory

  1. #1
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    Ukraine Says It Destroyed Russian Vehicles That Entered Territory

    Ukraine Says It Destroyed Russian Vehicles That Entered Territory

    "Guardian Web
    By Luke Harding, theguardian.com
    Friday August 15, 2014 11:42 AM
    Ukraine's president Petro Poroshenko has told David Cameron that a column of Russian armoured vehicles that entered Ukrainian territory late on Thursday night had been destroyed by Ukrainian forces.
    In a phone call to Cameron on Friday, Poroshenko appeared to confirm a report by the Guardian and other journalists that Russian armoured personnel carriers had crossed the border. He suggested that Ukrainian troops who have been fighting pro-Russian separatists in the east of Ukraine swiftly knocked out the Russian column.
    A statement from Poroshenko's office said: "The president informed [Cameron] that the information was trustworthy because the majority of those machines [Russian military vehicles] had been eliminated by the Ukrainian artillery at night."
    It added: "The president expressed concern over the situation on the border, particularly, over the fact that the inflow of Russian arms and military machines in Ukraine through the open part of the border continued."
    Russia has denied that its troops entered Ukrainian territory, saying that a column of armoured vehicles spotted on the border was a unit of border guards patrolling the frontier.
    A day after the Guardian and Daily Telegraph reported seeing 23 Russian armoured personnel carriers, supported by fuel trucks and other military logistics vehicles, crossing into Ukrainian territory, the FSB said there was a detachment in the area of border guards set up to assure safety and "prevent the infiltration of armed people on the territory of the Russian federation".
    But the security service stressed that the unit operated exclusively on Russian territory. "In this regard, information on a group of Russian soldiers crossing the Russian-Ukrainian border is not true," RIA Novosti quoted an official as saying.
    Britain said it had summoned the Russian envoy over the incursion reports.

    (c) 2014 Guardian Newspapers Limited. "

    The Separatists deny this has happened.

    The Russians deny this has happened.

    There are no supporting photos.

    Would Russia send in an undefended column?

    Why is Ukraine news suspicious?


  2. #2
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    Re: Ukraine Says It Destroyed Russian Vehicles That Entered Territory

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Ukraine Says It Destroyed Russian Vehicles That Entered Territory

    "Guardian Web
    By Luke Harding, theguardian.com
    Friday August 15, 2014 11:42 AM
    Ukraine's president Petro Poroshenko has told David Cameron that a column of Russian armoured vehicles that entered Ukrainian territory late on Thursday night had been destroyed by Ukrainian forces.
    In a phone call to Cameron on Friday, Poroshenko appeared to confirm a report by the Guardian and other journalists that Russian armoured personnel carriers had crossed the border. He suggested that Ukrainian troops who have been fighting pro-Russian separatists in the east of Ukraine swiftly knocked out the Russian column.
    A statement from Poroshenko's office said: "The president informed [Cameron] that the information was trustworthy because the majority of those machines [Russian military vehicles] had been eliminated by the Ukrainian artillery at night."
    It added: "The president expressed concern over the situation on the border, particularly, over the fact that the inflow of Russian arms and military machines in Ukraine through the open part of the border continued."
    Russia has denied that its troops entered Ukrainian territory, saying that a column of armoured vehicles spotted on the border was a unit of border guards patrolling the frontier.
    A day after the Guardian and Daily Telegraph reported seeing 23 Russian armoured personnel carriers, supported by fuel trucks and other military logistics vehicles, crossing into Ukrainian territory, the FSB said there was a detachment in the area of border guards set up to assure safety and "prevent the infiltration of armed people on the territory of the Russian federation".
    But the security service stressed that the unit operated exclusively on Russian territory. "In this regard, information on a group of Russian soldiers crossing the Russian-Ukrainian border is not true," RIA Novosti quoted an official as saying.
    Britain said it had summoned the Russian envoy over the incursion reports.

    (c) 2014 Guardian Newspapers Limited. "

    The Separatists deny this has happened.

    The Russians deny this has happened.

    There are no supporting photos.

    Would Russia send in an undefended column?

    Why is Ukraine news suspicious?

    Why would it be suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

  3. #3
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    Re: Ukraine Says It Destroyed Russian Vehicles That Entered Territory

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Why would it be suspicious?
    Kiev
    "
    The Russian Defense Ministry denied the allegations of a Russian incursion into eastern Ukraine, calling the claims a 'fantasy' that is not worth discussing. “No Russian military column crossed the Russian-Ukrainian border, either at night or during the day,” the ministry’s spokesman, Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov, told RIA Novosti. The UN in turn said it could not verify the report, calling for both parties to resolve the conflict through dialogue."

    The Vineyard of the Saker

    "
    The "destroyed Russian armor column": Poroshenko vs Carl Sagan

    I cannot prove a negative. But then, I am not the one making the claim. The Ukies and a few British reporters did. And they presented ZERO proof. As Carl Sagan so well put it "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" and the notion that Russia would send in only 23 armored vehicles, with no protection, in broad daylight is quite extraordinary. As is the notion that in a region chock-full of Russian military units nobody would have taken any action to save the column. So even if a Russian unit got into the Ukraine by mistaken (at the age of GPS and GLONASS, yet another extraordinary claim!) the notion that those who sent it did nothing to protect or extract their own men is also extraordinary. As for the British reporters, they don't even have a cellphone to show even bad images, maybe taken from far away? They have nothing at all? Quite extraordinary again. Last, but not least, there is one more extraordinary element to this story, but one which I do believe. I just heard that the British Foreign Office summoned the Russian ambassador to the UK over this Russian incursion. Excuse me -but since when is the Ukraine part of the British Empire of Commonwealth? What business does the Foreign Office have in this matter?

    I am quite sure that there are *lots* of destroyed armored columns all over the Donbass. In fact, the Resistance always makes a point of filming them. I just came across this one today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV5Y7OaDBng (sorry, no translation yet). So maybe the Ukies did show some burned armor to the British journalists. Ukie armor, of course. As for Poroshenko, he is desperately trying to convince the world that the Russians are about to invade, possibly by using their humanitarian convoy. What is sure is that until I see some rock solid evidence, with a credible scenario explaining how this could have happened, I will continue to side with Carl Sagan and dismiss this story completely.
    "

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    Re: Ukraine Says It Destroyed Russian Vehicles That Entered Territory

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Why would it be suspicious?
    Ukrainians lie.

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    Re: Ukraine Says It Destroyed Russian Vehicles That Entered Territory

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Kiev
    "
    The Russian Defense Ministry denied the allegations of a Russian incursion into eastern Ukraine, calling the claims a 'fantasy' that is not worth discussing. “No Russian military column crossed the Russian-Ukrainian border, either at night or during the day,” the ministry’s spokesman, Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov, told RIA Novosti. The UN in turn said it could not verify the report, calling for both parties to resolve the conflict through dialogue."

    The Vineyard of the Saker
    "
    The "destroyed Russian armor column": Poroshenko vs Carl Sagan

    I cannot prove a negative. But then, I am not the one making the claim. The Ukies and a few British reporters did. And they presented ZERO proof. As Carl Sagan so well put it "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" and the notion that Russia would send in only 23 armored vehicles, with no protection, in broad daylight is quite extraordinary. As is the notion that in a region chock-full of Russian military units nobody would have taken any action to save the column. So even if a Russian unit got into the Ukraine by mistaken (at the age of GPS and GLONASS, yet another extraordinary claim!) the notion that those who sent it did nothing to protect or extract their own men is also extraordinary. As for the British reporters, they don't even have a cellphone to show even bad images, maybe taken from far away? They have nothing at all? Quite extraordinary again. Last, but not least, there is one more extraordinary element to this story, but one which I do believe. I just heard that the British Foreign Office summoned the Russian ambassador to the UK over this Russian incursion. Excuse me -but since when is the Ukraine part of the British Empire of Commonwealth? What business does the Foreign Office have in this matter?

    I am quite sure that there are *lots* of destroyed armored columns all over the Donbass. In fact, the Resistance always makes a point of filming them. I just came across this one today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV5Y7OaDBng (sorry, no translation yet). So maybe the Ukies did show some burned armor to the British journalists. Ukie armor, of course. As for Poroshenko, he is desperately trying to convince the world that the Russians are about to invade, possibly by using their humanitarian convoy. What is sure is that until I see some rock solid evidence, with a credible scenario explaining how this could have happened, I will continue to side with Carl Sagan and dismiss this story completely.
    "

    Though all news requires independent verification from at least one further source, the fact of Russian heavy weapons having been brought in in a number of convoys does not seem in doubt having been confirmed. What is to my knowledge unclear it how much the Ukraine military was able to destroy.

  6. #6
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    Re: Ukraine Says It Destroyed Russian Vehicles That Entered Territory

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Though all news requires independent verification from at least one further source, the fact of Russian heavy weapons having been brought in in a number of convoys does not seem in doubt having been confirmed. What is to my knowledge unclear it how much the Ukraine military was able to destroy.
    Well as I said before, Russia has met its match with Ukraine. This is neither Chechnya nor Georgia for Russia to do whatever it pleases and when it pleases with foreign territories. They come in an again and they will be kicked all the same!
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

  7. #7
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    Re: Ukraine Says It Destroyed Russian Vehicles That Entered Territory

    What is sure is that until I see some rock solid evidence, with a credible scenario explaining how this could have happened, I will continue to side with Carl Sagan and dismiss this story completely.[/FONT]
    "[/QUOTE]

    All I need in turn is just solid evidence. The scenario is something for my own critical thinking.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

  8. #8
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    Re: Ukraine Says It Destroyed Russian Vehicles That Entered Territory

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Ukraine Says It Destroyed Russian Vehicles That Entered Territory

    "Guardian Web
    By Luke Harding, theguardian.com
    Friday August 15, 2014 11:42 AM
    Ukraine's president Petro Poroshenko has told David Cameron that a column of Russian armoured vehicles that entered Ukrainian territory late on Thursday night had been destroyed by Ukrainian forces.
    In a phone call to Cameron on Friday, Poroshenko appeared to confirm a report by the Guardian and other journalists that Russian armoured personnel carriers had crossed the border. He suggested that Ukrainian troops who have been fighting pro-Russian separatists in the east of Ukraine swiftly knocked out the Russian column.
    A statement from Poroshenko's office said: "The president informed [Cameron] that the information was trustworthy because the majority of those machines [Russian military vehicles] had been eliminated by the Ukrainian artillery at night."
    It added: "The president expressed concern over the situation on the border, particularly, over the fact that the inflow of Russian arms and military machines in Ukraine through the open part of the border continued."
    Russia has denied that its troops entered Ukrainian territory, saying that a column of armoured vehicles spotted on the border was a unit of border guards patrolling the frontier.
    A day after the Guardian and Daily Telegraph reported seeing 23 Russian armoured personnel carriers, supported by fuel trucks and other military logistics vehicles, crossing into Ukrainian territory, the FSB said there was a detachment in the area of border guards set up to assure safety and "prevent the infiltration of armed people on the territory of the Russian federation".
    But the security service stressed that the unit operated exclusively on Russian territory. "In this regard, information on a group of Russian soldiers crossing the Russian-Ukrainian border is not true," RIA Novosti quoted an official as saying.
    Britain said it had summoned the Russian envoy over the incursion reports.

    (c) 2014 Guardian Newspapers Limited. "

    The Separatists deny this has happened.

    The Russians deny this has happened.

    There are no supporting photos.

    Would Russia send in an undefended column?

    Why is Ukraine news suspicious?

    You know how I view claims at this moment from Russia and Ukraine?



    I miss him...

  9. #9
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    Re: Ukraine Says It Destroyed Russian Vehicles That Entered Territory

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Well as I said before, Russia has met its match with Ukraine. This is neither Chechnya nor Georgia for Russia to do whatever it pleases and when it pleases with foreign territories. They come in an again and they will be kicked all the same!
    You would really bet on the outnumbered Ukraine troops against massively better armed Russians?

  10. #10
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    Re: Ukraine Says It Destroyed Russian Vehicles That Entered Territory

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Well as I said before, Russia has met its match with Ukraine. This is neither Chechnya nor Georgia for Russia to do whatever it pleases and when it pleases with foreign territories. They come in an again and they will be kicked all the same!
    Hogwash. Russia has shown incredible restraint. It is Ukraine that is attempting to provoke the Russians and draw NATO into the conflict and get the UK, EU, AND NATO to foot the bill. Ukraine can't even handle the separatists and you think they could handle the Russians? Russia could overrun Ukraine like a parking lot, but Russia is trying to maintain realistic relations with its' neighboring countries and doesn't want an antagonistic relationship. The US wants to destroy the EU/Russia trade and banking ties and I would guess it is in regards to preventing the collapse of the USDollar in Central Banking circles. So far, it is just damaging the EU economies. How long before the EU realizes its' relationship with Russia does not have an Atlantic barrier, nor a banking monopoly?

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