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Ukraine Says It Destroyed Russian Vehicles That Entered Territory

Does Ukraine news require independent verification?


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DaveFagan

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Ukraine Says It Destroyed Russian Vehicles That Entered Territory

"Guardian Web
By Luke Harding, theguardian.com
Friday August 15, 2014 11:42 AM
Ukraine's president Petro Poroshenko has told David Cameron that a column of Russian armoured vehicles that entered Ukrainian territory late on Thursday night had been destroyed by Ukrainian forces.
In a phone call to Cameron on Friday, Poroshenko appeared to confirm a report by the Guardian and other journalists that Russian armoured personnel carriers had crossed the border. He suggested that Ukrainian troops who have been fighting pro-Russian separatists in the east of Ukraine swiftly knocked out the Russian column.
A statement from Poroshenko's office said: "The president informed [Cameron] that the information was trustworthy because the majority of those machines [Russian military vehicles] had been eliminated by the Ukrainian artillery at night."
It added: "The president expressed concern over the situation on the border, particularly, over the fact that the inflow of Russian arms and military machines in Ukraine through the open part of the border continued."
Russia has denied that its troops entered Ukrainian territory, saying that a column of armoured vehicles spotted on the border was a unit of border guards patrolling the frontier.
A day after the Guardian and Daily Telegraph reported seeing 23 Russian armoured personnel carriers, supported by fuel trucks and other military logistics vehicles, crossing into Ukrainian territory, the FSB said there was a detachment in the area of border guards set up to assure safety and "prevent the infiltration of armed people on the territory of the Russian federation".
But the security service stressed that the unit operated exclusively on Russian territory. "In this regard, information on a group of Russian soldiers crossing the Russian-Ukrainian border is not true," RIA Novosti quoted an official as saying.
Britain said it had summoned the Russian envoy over the incursion reports.

(c) 2014 Guardian Newspapers Limited. "

The Separatists deny this has happened.

The Russians deny this has happened.

There are no supporting photos.

Would Russia send in an undefended column?

Why is Ukraine news suspicious?

 
Ukraine Says It Destroyed Russian Vehicles That Entered Territory

"Guardian Web
By Luke Harding, theguardian.com
Friday August 15, 2014 11:42 AM
Ukraine's president Petro Poroshenko has told David Cameron that a column of Russian armoured vehicles that entered Ukrainian territory late on Thursday night had been destroyed by Ukrainian forces.
In a phone call to Cameron on Friday, Poroshenko appeared to confirm a report by the Guardian and other journalists that Russian armoured personnel carriers had crossed the border. He suggested that Ukrainian troops who have been fighting pro-Russian separatists in the east of Ukraine swiftly knocked out the Russian column.
A statement from Poroshenko's office said: "The president informed [Cameron] that the information was trustworthy because the majority of those machines [Russian military vehicles] had been eliminated by the Ukrainian artillery at night."
It added: "The president expressed concern over the situation on the border, particularly, over the fact that the inflow of Russian arms and military machines in Ukraine through the open part of the border continued."
Russia has denied that its troops entered Ukrainian territory, saying that a column of armoured vehicles spotted on the border was a unit of border guards patrolling the frontier.
A day after the Guardian and Daily Telegraph reported seeing 23 Russian armoured personnel carriers, supported by fuel trucks and other military logistics vehicles, crossing into Ukrainian territory, the FSB said there was a detachment in the area of border guards set up to assure safety and "prevent the infiltration of armed people on the territory of the Russian federation".
But the security service stressed that the unit operated exclusively on Russian territory. "In this regard, information on a group of Russian soldiers crossing the Russian-Ukrainian border is not true," RIA Novosti quoted an official as saying.
Britain said it had summoned the Russian envoy over the incursion reports.

(c) 2014 Guardian Newspapers Limited. "

The Separatists deny this has happened.

The Russians deny this has happened.

There are no supporting photos.

Would Russia send in an undefended column?

Why is Ukraine news suspicious?


Why would it be suspicious?
 
Why would it be suspicious?

Kiev
"
The Russian Defense Ministry denied the allegations of a Russian incursion into eastern Ukraine, calling the claims a 'fantasy' that is not worth discussing. “No Russian military column crossed the Russian-Ukrainian border, either at night or during the day,” the ministry’s spokesman, Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov, told RIA Novosti. The UN in turn said it could not verify the report, calling for both parties to resolve the conflict through dialogue."

The Vineyard of the Saker

"
The "destroyed Russian armor column": Poroshenko vs Carl Sagan

I cannot prove a negative. But then, I am not the one making the claim. The Ukies and a few British reporters did. And they presented ZERO proof. As Carl Sagan so well put it "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" and the notion that Russia would send in only 23 armored vehicles, with no protection, in broad daylight is quite extraordinary. As is the notion that in a region chock-full of Russian military units nobody would have taken any action to save the column. So even if a Russian unit got into the Ukraine by mistaken (at the age of GPS and GLONASS, yet another extraordinary claim!) the notion that those who sent it did nothing to protect or extract their own men is also extraordinary. As for the British reporters, they don't even have a cellphone to show even bad images, maybe taken from far away? They have nothing at all? Quite extraordinary again. Last, but not least, there is one more extraordinary element to this story, but one which I do believe. I just heard that the British Foreign Office summoned the Russian ambassador to the UK over this Russian incursion. Excuse me -but since when is the Ukraine part of the British Empire of Commonwealth? What business does the Foreign Office have in this matter?

I am quite sure that there are *lots* of destroyed armored columns all over the Donbass. In fact, the Resistance always makes a point of filming them. I just came across this one today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV5Y7OaDBng (sorry, no translation yet). So maybe the Ukies did show some burned armor to the British journalists. Ukie armor, of course. As for Poroshenko, he is desperately trying to convince the world that the Russians are about to invade, possibly by using their humanitarian convoy. What is sure is that until I see some rock solid evidence, with a credible scenario explaining how this could have happened, I will continue to side with Carl Sagan and dismiss this story completely.
"
 
Kiev
"
The Russian Defense Ministry denied the allegations of a Russian incursion into eastern Ukraine, calling the claims a 'fantasy' that is not worth discussing. “No Russian military column crossed the Russian-Ukrainian border, either at night or during the day,” the ministry’s spokesman, Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov, told RIA Novosti. The UN in turn said it could not verify the report, calling for both parties to resolve the conflict through dialogue."

The Vineyard of the Saker
"
The "destroyed Russian armor column": Poroshenko vs Carl Sagan

I cannot prove a negative. But then, I am not the one making the claim. The Ukies and a few British reporters did. And they presented ZERO proof. As Carl Sagan so well put it "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" and the notion that Russia would send in only 23 armored vehicles, with no protection, in broad daylight is quite extraordinary. As is the notion that in a region chock-full of Russian military units nobody would have taken any action to save the column. So even if a Russian unit got into the Ukraine by mistaken (at the age of GPS and GLONASS, yet another extraordinary claim!) the notion that those who sent it did nothing to protect or extract their own men is also extraordinary. As for the British reporters, they don't even have a cellphone to show even bad images, maybe taken from far away? They have nothing at all? Quite extraordinary again. Last, but not least, there is one more extraordinary element to this story, but one which I do believe. I just heard that the British Foreign Office summoned the Russian ambassador to the UK over this Russian incursion. Excuse me -but since when is the Ukraine part of the British Empire of Commonwealth? What business does the Foreign Office have in this matter?

I am quite sure that there are *lots* of destroyed armored columns all over the Donbass. In fact, the Resistance always makes a point of filming them. I just came across this one today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV5Y7OaDBng (sorry, no translation yet). So maybe the Ukies did show some burned armor to the British journalists. Ukie armor, of course. As for Poroshenko, he is desperately trying to convince the world that the Russians are about to invade, possibly by using their humanitarian convoy. What is sure is that until I see some rock solid evidence, with a credible scenario explaining how this could have happened, I will continue to side with Carl Sagan and dismiss this story completely.
"


Though all news requires independent verification from at least one further source, the fact of Russian heavy weapons having been brought in in a number of convoys does not seem in doubt having been confirmed. What is to my knowledge unclear it how much the Ukraine military was able to destroy.
 
Though all news requires independent verification from at least one further source, the fact of Russian heavy weapons having been brought in in a number of convoys does not seem in doubt having been confirmed. What is to my knowledge unclear it how much the Ukraine military was able to destroy.

Well as I said before, Russia has met its match with Ukraine. This is neither Chechnya nor Georgia for Russia to do whatever it pleases and when it pleases with foreign territories. They come in an again and they will be kicked all the same!
 
What is sure is that until I see some rock solid evidence, with a credible scenario explaining how this could have happened, I will continue to side with Carl Sagan and dismiss this story completely.[/FONT]
"[/QUOTE]

All I need in turn is just solid evidence. The scenario is something for my own critical thinking.
 
Ukraine Says It Destroyed Russian Vehicles That Entered Territory

"Guardian Web
By Luke Harding, theguardian.com
Friday August 15, 2014 11:42 AM
Ukraine's president Petro Poroshenko has told David Cameron that a column of Russian armoured vehicles that entered Ukrainian territory late on Thursday night had been destroyed by Ukrainian forces.
In a phone call to Cameron on Friday, Poroshenko appeared to confirm a report by the Guardian and other journalists that Russian armoured personnel carriers had crossed the border. He suggested that Ukrainian troops who have been fighting pro-Russian separatists in the east of Ukraine swiftly knocked out the Russian column.
A statement from Poroshenko's office said: "The president informed [Cameron] that the information was trustworthy because the majority of those machines [Russian military vehicles] had been eliminated by the Ukrainian artillery at night."
It added: "The president expressed concern over the situation on the border, particularly, over the fact that the inflow of Russian arms and military machines in Ukraine through the open part of the border continued."
Russia has denied that its troops entered Ukrainian territory, saying that a column of armoured vehicles spotted on the border was a unit of border guards patrolling the frontier.
A day after the Guardian and Daily Telegraph reported seeing 23 Russian armoured personnel carriers, supported by fuel trucks and other military logistics vehicles, crossing into Ukrainian territory, the FSB said there was a detachment in the area of border guards set up to assure safety and "prevent the infiltration of armed people on the territory of the Russian federation".
But the security service stressed that the unit operated exclusively on Russian territory. "In this regard, information on a group of Russian soldiers crossing the Russian-Ukrainian border is not true," RIA Novosti quoted an official as saying.
Britain said it had summoned the Russian envoy over the incursion reports.

(c) 2014 Guardian Newspapers Limited. "

The Separatists deny this has happened.

The Russians deny this has happened.

There are no supporting photos.

Would Russia send in an undefended column?

Why is Ukraine news suspicious?


You know how I view claims at this moment from Russia and Ukraine?



I miss him...
 
Well as I said before, Russia has met its match with Ukraine. This is neither Chechnya nor Georgia for Russia to do whatever it pleases and when it pleases with foreign territories. They come in an again and they will be kicked all the same!

You would really bet on the outnumbered Ukraine troops against massively better armed Russians?
 
Well as I said before, Russia has met its match with Ukraine. This is neither Chechnya nor Georgia for Russia to do whatever it pleases and when it pleases with foreign territories. They come in an again and they will be kicked all the same!

Hogwash. Russia has shown incredible restraint. It is Ukraine that is attempting to provoke the Russians and draw NATO into the conflict and get the UK, EU, AND NATO to foot the bill. Ukraine can't even handle the separatists and you think they could handle the Russians? Russia could overrun Ukraine like a parking lot, but Russia is trying to maintain realistic relations with its' neighboring countries and doesn't want an antagonistic relationship. The US wants to destroy the EU/Russia trade and banking ties and I would guess it is in regards to preventing the collapse of the USDollar in Central Banking circles. So far, it is just damaging the EU economies. How long before the EU realizes its' relationship with Russia does not have an Atlantic barrier, nor a banking monopoly?
 
Hogwash. Russia has shown incredible restraint. It is Ukraine that is attempting to provoke the Russians and draw NATO into the conflict and get the UK, EU, AND NATO to foot the bill. Ukraine can't even handle the separatists and you think they could handle the Russians? Russia could overrun Ukraine like a parking lot, but Russia is trying to maintain realistic relations with its' neighboring countries and doesn't want an antagonistic relationship. The US wants to destroy the EU/Russia trade and banking ties and I would guess it is in regards to preventing the collapse of the USDollar in Central Banking circles. So far, it is just damaging the EU economies. How long before the EU realizes its' relationship with Russia does not have an Atlantic barrier, nor a banking monopoly?

Incredible restraint by providing arms to the seperatist?
 
Incredible restraint by providing arms to the seperatist?

The separatists are Russian speaking Ukrainians. They are not terrorists. The papers are cheerleading a Gaza type genocide against these "terrorists," that are just the same people that have lived their entire lives there. Farmers, miners, wives, mothers, brothers, children and all at home being bombarded by artillery. Many Kiev leaders including Yulia Tymoshenko have publicly demanded they be wiped out like cockroaches and subhumans. It has been fascist, Nazi, Banderite influences that have been allowed into the Kiev junta and are influencing anti-Russian speaking policies and actions. I know it must all be huge coincidence that Ukraine is a major transit hub for Big Energy and of course it couldn't have anything to do with the instability there the same as Libya, Iraq, Syria, Iran, etc., don't ya' know?
 
The separatists are Russian speaking Ukrainians. They are not terrorists. The papers are cheerleading a Gaza type genocide against these "terrorists," that are just the same people that have lived their entire lives there. Farmers, miners, wives, mothers, brothers, children and all at home being bombarded by artillery. Many Kiev leaders including Yulia Tymoshenko have publicly demanded they be wiped out like cockroaches and subhumans. It has been fascist, Nazi, Banderite influences that have been allowed into the Kiev junta and are influencing anti-Russian speaking policies and actions. I know it must all be huge coincidence that Ukraine is a major transit hub for Big Energy and of course it couldn't have anything to do with the instability there the same as Libya, Iraq, Syria, Iran, etc., don't ya' know?

So are you saying the Russians should be able to be involved anywhere there are Russian people there? That seems like a bad policy in general. At the very least now, there's a bout half a dozen countries that would look at the precedent and logically wonder if their next.
 
So are you saying the Russians should be able to be involved anywhere there are Russian people there? That seems like a bad policy in general. At the very least now, there's a bout half a dozen countries that would look at the precedent and logically wonder if their next.


No. You seem to be the one saying that. I'm saying that a bunch of Nazis from Kiev are wanting to commit genocide on the people of Ukraine that voted for Yanukovych and the Russians would prefer to keep these people alive. Not sure why. Kiev assures they are nothing but cockroaches and subhumans. I mean, would Kiev lie to you or is that what this poll is about?
 
No. You seem to be the one saying that. I'm saying that a bunch of Nazis from Kiev are wanting to commit genocide on the people of Ukraine that voted for Yanukovych and the Russians would prefer to keep these people alive. Not sure why. Kiev assures they are nothing but cockroaches and subhumans. I mean, would Kiev lie to you or is that what this poll is about?

Where you getting this information from? Russia Today?
 
Where you getting this information from? Russia Today?

Who's killing who in South and East Ukraine? I didn't see or hear of the separatists attacking Kiev. Perhaps you have inside information. Or not.
 
You would really bet on the outnumbered Ukraine troops against massively better armed Russians?

I believe it would be a Russian Vietnam story. Yes they will storm Ukraine, but they will never be able to keep it!
 
Hogwash. Russia has shown incredible restraint. It is Ukraine that is attempting to provoke the Russians and draw NATO into the conflict and get the UK, EU, AND NATO to foot the bill. Ukraine can't even handle the separatists and you think they could handle the Russians? Russia could overrun Ukraine like a parking lot, but Russia is trying to maintain realistic relations with its' neighboring countries and doesn't want an antagonistic relationship. The US wants to destroy the EU/Russia trade and banking ties and I would guess it is in regards to preventing the collapse of the USDollar in Central Banking circles. So far, it is just damaging the EU economies. How long before the EU realizes its' relationship with Russia does not have an Atlantic barrier, nor a banking monopoly?

See my post above about what would happen if Russia invaded the rest of Ukraine also (not just Crimea).
 
I believe it would be a Russian Vietnam story. Yes they will storm Ukraine, but they will never be able to keep it!

Put it in the hands of a Ramzan Kadyrov lookalike.

Sorry, only a joke. But I thought it interesting that you think the Ukrainians would convert to partisans.
 
Put it in the hands of a Ramzan Kadyrov lookalike.

Sorry, only a joke. But I thought it interesting that you think the Ukrainians would convert to partisans.

If one cannot engage symmetrically then the only other option is asymmetrically.
 
Russia did pledge not to continue meddle in Ukraine, clearly it has. on the other hand the regime has been pretty brutal.
on the 3rd hand so have the separatists. ain't a lot of good guys here..
 
Ukraine Says It Destroyed Russian Vehicles That Entered Territory

"Guardian Web
By Luke Harding, theguardian.com
Friday August 15, 2014 11:42 AM
Ukraine's president Petro Poroshenko has told David Cameron that a column of Russian armoured vehicles that entered Ukrainian territory late on Thursday night had been destroyed by Ukrainian forces.
In a phone call to Cameron on Friday, Poroshenko appeared to confirm a report by the Guardian and other journalists that Russian armoured personnel carriers had crossed the border. He suggested that Ukrainian troops who have been fighting pro-Russian separatists in the east of Ukraine swiftly knocked out the Russian column.
A statement from Poroshenko's office said: "The president informed [Cameron] that the information was trustworthy because the majority of those machines [Russian military vehicles] had been eliminated by the Ukrainian artillery at night."
It added: "The president expressed concern over the situation on the border, particularly, over the fact that the inflow of Russian arms and military machines in Ukraine through the open part of the border continued."
Russia has denied that its troops entered Ukrainian territory, saying that a column of armoured vehicles spotted on the border was a unit of border guards patrolling the frontier.
A day after the Guardian and Daily Telegraph reported seeing 23 Russian armoured personnel carriers, supported by fuel trucks and other military logistics vehicles, crossing into Ukrainian territory, the FSB said there was a detachment in the area of border guards set up to assure safety and "prevent the infiltration of armed people on the territory of the Russian federation".
But the security service stressed that the unit operated exclusively on Russian territory. "In this regard, information on a group of Russian soldiers crossing the Russian-Ukrainian border is not true," RIA Novosti quoted an official as saying.
Britain said it had summoned the Russian envoy over the incursion reports.

(c) 2014 Guardian Newspapers Limited. "

The Separatists deny this has happened.

The Russians deny this has happened.

There are no supporting photos.

Would Russia send in an undefended column?

Why is Ukraine news suspicious?


Russia fighting Ukraine would be like the US fighting Russia. I highly doubt this story is true, but they can dream.
 
Russia fighting Ukraine would be like the US fighting Russia. I highly doubt this story is true, but they can dream.

Do you think the two "journalists" that promolgated this fantasy will be added to the Judith Miller list?
Actually, it is time to generate a list of these bogus source articles to clean up the profession.
 
Do you think the two "journalists" that promolgated this fantasy will be added to the Judith Miller list?
Actually, it is time to generate a list of these bogus source articles to clean up the profession.

Nah I think they're just obscure journalists that no one knows of and no one will know of. I am however reminded of:

We-have-them.jpg
 
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