View Poll Results: What of the following does the best for eliminating poverty in the world?

Voters
1003. You may not vote on this poll
  • Private property.

    55 5.48%
  • Unions.

    315 31.41%
  • Personal liberty.

    69 6.88%
  • Entitlements.

    403 40.18%
  • Taxation

    463 46.16%
  • Freedom from coercion/association.

    52 5.18%
  • Government programs/policies.

    410 40.88%
  • The free market.

    79 7.88%
  • Class struggle.

    14 1.40%
  • Working for oneself.

    59 5.88%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: How is poverty best eliminated?

  1. #71
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    Glen Contrarian's Avatar
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    For lefties this is a difficult truth. Reality poking them in the eye.
    I notice you did not reply to my links showing you how many other first-world socialized democracies are having to deal with illegal immigration.

    And you still have not said how it is that the nations with the lowest rates of real poverty - the nations with the highest standards of living for the population as a whole - are ALL first-world socialized democracies...whereas the nations with the highest rates of poverty, the lowest standards of living, are those nations with the conservative ideal of small government, low effective taxes, and weak regulation.

    But that's okay - I get it - to you, it doesn't matter who's right or wrong, or which kind of government and economic system is best for fighting poverty. All that really matters to you is hooray for conservatives and boo-hiss-boo for liberals. Facts need not apply.
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  2. #72
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    REALLY? Care to prove that claim? Care to show which nations among the first-world SOCIALIZED democracies have such high percentages of people in poverty, with closed market economies? Care to show that the US had less people in poverty before the New Deal began bringing socialism to America?

    But you're not going to reply. Why? Because the actual numbers, the actual facts are 180-out from your claim...and if you don't know that already, you'll find it out as soon as you begin trying to dig up those numbers and facts...

    ...and then you won't allow yourself to reply, because not only can you not prove your claims, but all the evidence points to the precise opposite of what you apparently want to believe.
    I guess you could equate poverty by the unemployment number. Notice all three of these SOCIALIZED countries are broke besides. Not only are they broke they have high unemployment = poverty. Poverty is the opposite of prosperity and there sure is no prosperity in these three socialist countries.

    Greece = 27%
    France = 10.4%
    Spain = 25.1%
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  3. #73
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    Glen Contrarian's Avatar
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Thanks for the laugh GC. Working on a bunch of plans to deal with California's ongoing progressive/socialist attacks on job creators/tax payers, so the chuckle was well timed.

    Australia an island. That's awesome!
    Yes, Australia is a continent. It's also an island. At least that's what the Australian government says. But I'm sure you know better than they do.

    And I notice you did not address the conundrum I posed the author of the OP:

    "You asked what's the best way to fight poverty. What nations have the highest standards of living? The socialized first-world democracies (which includes America, because yes, we DO have a lot of socialism here) have the highest standards of living...and thus the lowest rates of real poverty. And what nations have the higher rates of poverty? Easy. Nations with small governments, low effective taxes, and weak regulation."

    If socialized democracy is so terrible, then WHY are all the nations with the highest standards of living socialized democracies? If it's best for a nation to have small governments, low effective taxes, and weak regulations, WHY are all such nations still third-world nations?

    You can tap-dance all you want around that set of questions...but there's only one answer: socialized democracy - that system wherein there is a strong government with high effective taxes and strong regulation BALANCED by a strong business sector is best for the prosperity of the population as a whole. Of course that's a terrible system...except, as Churchill pointed out, for all the other governments that have ever been tried.

    And when it comes to California:

    LEADING JOB CREATION: California added almost 320,000 new jobs in 2013 and over 1.17 million new jobs since the end of the recession.

    TOP 5 GDP GROWTH: California's GDP growth rate was 3.5 percent in 2012 fifth best in the nation.

    MULTIPLE NATION LEADING SECTORS: Where other states have one or two main economic sectors, California has several -- all of which lead the nation. California is first in high tech, biotech, agriculture, entertainment, manufacturing, tourism and more.

    MANUFACTURING JOB INCREASE: After ten plus years of manufacturing job losses, California posted three consecutive years of manufacturing job gains in 2011, 2012 and 2013.

    RECORD EXPORTS: In trade, California merchandise exports grew to $164 billion last year -- a record export high for the state. Our nation leading tourism sector boasts over 200 million visitors in 2012 with direct travel spending of more than $106.4 billion.

    BALANCED BUDGETS IMPROVE CA CREDIT RATING: In a landmark for the state, California ended 10 years of budget deficits as Governor Brown not only signed his third consecutive balanced budget but one that included more than a billion dollar surplus. As a result, the ratings service Fitch changed the state's outlook from "stable" to "positive," Moody's upgraded their ratings for California's Economic Recovery Bonds and Standard & Poor's raised California's credit rating for the first time since 2006.

    INCREASING FOREIGN INVESTMENT: In April Governor Brown led a trade mission to China where he announced over $1.8 billion dollars in deals and opened a California foreign trade office in Shanghai -- the first in over a decade.

    NEW BUSINESS INCENTIVES: Earlier this year, Governor Brown enacted a new Economic Development Initiative. The initiative brought together business leaders, labor interests and legislators from both sides of the aisle to help create a more flexible, more competitive set of economic development tools for California. The new tools include a Sales and Use Tax Exemption for Manufacturing, Biotech and R&D equipment; a Hiring Credit, and the CA Competes Tax Credit designed to incentive companies to locate or expand in CA
    (boldface mine)

    Yeah, yeah, I know...California's about to crash and burn and its economy is about to die a terrible death....
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  4. #74
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    I guess you could equate poverty by the unemployment number. Notice all three of these SOCIALIZED countries are broke besides. Not only are they broke they have high unemployment = poverty. Poverty is the opposite of prosperity and there sure is no prosperity in these three socialist countries.

    Greece = 27%
    France = 10.4%
    Spain = 25.1%
    And if you'll check, both Greece and Spain adopted austerity measures. France did at first, but has since began going back to classic Keynesian economics. Notice a difference in the three nations?

    And how many of those nations are in danger of devolving to third-world status? None - not even Greece which, if you'll check, is finally beginning to recover economically.

    And FYI, high unemployment is not necessarily the same as poverty, just as employment is not the same as prosperity. Many third-world nations have high employment rates...and really crappy poverty rates. Not only that, but you've got to be careful to remember that different nations set different benchmarks for poverty. China, for instance, that powerhouse of an economy claims to have a relatively low level of poverty...until one finds out that their poverty level is determined by how many make at less than $400/year.

    In other words, you and the other conservatives can tap-dance all you want, but socialized democracy like that found in ALL first-world democracies (including America) is the best way that mankind's ever had of keeping the poverty rate low, of maintaining a high standard of living for the population as a whole.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  5. #75
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Yes, Australia is a continent. It's also an island. At least that's what the Australian government says. But I'm sure you know better than they do.

    And I notice you did not address the conundrum I posed the author of the OP:

    "You asked what's the best way to fight poverty. What nations have the highest standards of living? The socialized first-world democracies (which includes America, because yes, we DO have a lot of socialism here) have the highest standards of living...and thus the lowest rates of real poverty. And what nations have the higher rates of poverty? Easy. Nations with small governments, low effective taxes, and weak regulation."

    If socialized democracy is so terrible, then WHY are all the nations with the highest standards of living socialized democracies? If it's best for a nation to have small governments, low effective taxes, and weak regulations, WHY are all such nations still third-world nations?

    You can tap-dance all you want around that set of questions...but there's only one answer: socialized democracy - that system wherein there is a strong government with high effective taxes and strong regulation BALANCED by a strong business sector is best for the prosperity of the population as a whole. Of course that's a terrible system...except, as Churchill pointed out, for all the other governments that have ever been tried.

    And when it comes to California:

    LEADING JOB CREATION: California added almost 320,000 new jobs in 2013 and over 1.17 million new jobs since the end of the recession.

    TOP 5 GDP GROWTH: California's GDP growth rate was 3.5 percent in 2012 – fifth best in the nation.

    MULTIPLE NATION LEADING SECTORS: Where other states have one or two main economic sectors, California has several -- all of which lead the nation. California is first in high tech, biotech, agriculture, entertainment, manufacturing, tourism and more.

    MANUFACTURING JOB INCREASE: After ten plus years of manufacturing job losses, California posted three consecutive years of manufacturing job gains in 2011, 2012 and 2013.

    RECORD EXPORTS: In trade, California merchandise exports grew to $164 billion last year -- a record export high for the state. Our nation leading tourism sector boasts over 200 million visitors in 2012 with direct travel spending of more than $106.4 billion.

    BALANCED BUDGETS IMPROVE CA CREDIT RATING: In a landmark for the state, California ended 10 years of budget deficits as Governor Brown not only signed his third consecutive balanced budget but one that included more than a billion dollar surplus. As a result, the ratings service Fitch changed the state's outlook from "stable" to "positive," Moody's upgraded their ratings for California's Economic Recovery Bonds and Standard & Poor's raised California's credit rating for the first time since 2006.

    INCREASING FOREIGN INVESTMENT: In April Governor Brown led a trade mission to China where he announced over $1.8 billion dollars in deals and opened a California foreign trade office in Shanghai -- the first in over a decade.

    NEW BUSINESS INCENTIVES: Earlier this year, Governor Brown enacted a new Economic Development Initiative. The initiative brought together business leaders, labor interests and legislators from both sides of the aisle to help create a more flexible, more competitive set of economic development tools for California. The new tools include a Sales and Use Tax Exemption for Manufacturing, Biotech and R&D equipment; a Hiring Credit, and the CA Competes Tax Credit designed to incentive companies to locate or expand in CA
    (boldface mine)

    Yeah, yeah, I know...California's about to crash and burn and its economy is about to die a terrible death....
    Yes it is. $100's of billions in unfunded liabilities, some of the highest unemployment in the country, home to over 30% of the nations welfare cases, among the highest taxes in the nation, and many other Progressive/Socialist accomplishments.

    But you know all that, since you spend so much time and effort developing the spin to address such realities.

    Anyway, not that interested in a long tete a tete with you right now. Just wanted to pass on the thanks.

  6. #76
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    It does on the score card.

    PS: BTW, they do not own millions. They have billions.
    Oops, you're right, typed that wrong. That's what I get for posting that late at night.
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  7. #77
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Oops, you're right, typed that wrong. That's what I get for posting that late at night.
    Late night posts are dangerous.

  8. #78
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    And if you'll check, both Greece and Spain adopted austerity measures. France did at first, but has since began going back to classic Keynesian economics. Notice a difference in the three nations?
    Austerity measure, no one would lend them the money, now tell me what is the debt of the three socialist countries and who is lending them money to spend there way to prosperity. Remember they were borrowing and spending before they had to cut back as Keynesian did not work.

    And how many of those nations are in danger of devolving to third-world status? None - not even Greece which, if you'll check, is finally beginning to recover economically.
    It is not recovering from anything, you call 25% unemployment a recovery, hell I guess Obama's worst recovery in US history after injecting 8 trillion into the economy is according to liberals the best recovery in US history.

    And FYI, high unemployment is not necessarily the same as poverty, just as employment is not the same as prosperity. Many third-world nations have high employment rates...and really crappy poverty rates. Not only that, but you've got to be careful to remember that different nations set different benchmarks for poverty. China, for instance, that powerhouse of an economy claims to have a relatively low level of poverty...until one finds out that their poverty level is determined by how many make at less than $400/year.
    When you have high unemployment like Greece at 25%, you telling me they are not at the poverty level. Tell me what are the living on?

    In other words, you and the other conservatives can tap-dance all you want, but socialized democracy like that found in ALL first-world democracies (including America) is the best way that mankind's ever had of keeping the poverty rate low, of maintaining a high standard of living for the population as a whole.
    There is not tap dance, all you have to do is look at Spain, France and Greece and any idiot can see socialist countries like these have not prospered, they are overloaded with debt and high unemployment. Hell it's fact. Yet liberals use these countries as models that we should follow. Not if I can help it.
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    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
    Obama's legacy - President Donald Trump

  9. #79
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Eliminating poverty's impossible. All the options can have both good and bad consequences depending on how and to what degree they're applied.

  10. #80
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    What works best to eliminate poverty? Multiple options are available.
    Education.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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