View Poll Results: What of the following does the best for eliminating poverty in the world?

Voters
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  • Private property.

    55 5.48%
  • Unions.

    315 31.41%
  • Personal liberty.

    69 6.88%
  • Entitlements.

    403 40.18%
  • Taxation

    463 46.16%
  • Freedom from coercion/association.

    52 5.18%
  • Government programs/policies.

    410 40.88%
  • The free market.

    79 7.88%
  • Class struggle.

    14 1.40%
  • Working for oneself.

    59 5.88%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: How is poverty best eliminated?

  1. #431
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Seems reasonable, but the specifics will be where contention arises, I suspect.
    Current outflow structure has entrenched interests whose incentives are not attached to the actual efficiency or effectiveness of the programs they serve. Imagine if nothing else how many federal workers, lobbyists, and "advocacy" groups would be instantly out of a job if we were to convert federal transfer payments to a simple streamlined cash transfer to those living in low-income situations. Also, it is an issue easily demagogued. Low income citizens are also disproportionately low information voters, easily convinced that Evil So and So's in Washington Are Out To Take Away Their [fill-in-the-blank].

    But as the point appears to be that "family" isn't doing it's assigned tasks correctly, and I suspect any measures to improve matters in that area may take decades, some kind of stopgap measure must be used.
    True enough. But those measures themselves should not disincentivize successful family formation or for that matter, any major positive behavior.

  2. #432
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    Glen Contrarian's Avatar
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Low income citizens are also disproportionately low information voters, easily convinced that Evil So and So's in Washington Are Out To Take Away Their [fill-in-the-blank].
    I agree wholeheartedly! BTW, wouldn't that generally apply, then, to the voters in the poorest states?
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  3. #433
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I agree wholeheartedly! BTW, wouldn't that generally apply, then, to the voters in the poorest states?
    it would apply to the lowest income voters, particularly and is more likely to be a successful tactic in areas where low-income voters are more likely to feel like low income voters due to high income discrepancy and are more likely to be on means-tested programs. California and New York are excellent examples.

  4. #434
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    What it DOES show - if you're half as objective as you seem to believe - is that urban areas are almost without exception MORE liberal than rural areas, and rural areas are almost without exception MORE conservative than urban areas. This is true all through human history, all over the planet.

    You also know that it's only since the early 1990's that the two parties began to really polarize into liberal or conservative. Even as late as the 80's, the GOP had some liberal politicians, and even right now there are still a very, very few conservative Democratic politicians. Whatever you want to claim about what states were red or blue or purple or whatever, the URBAN areas (and the suburban areas close to them) have almost always been more liberal than the RURAL areas, which are almost always more conservative.

    This isn't even a political argument - this is rather simple sociology. How it applies to politics is that because the two major parties have polarized into liberal and conservative, the Dems are now mostly representing those areas with a higher standard of living, and the GOP is now mostly representing those areas with a lower standard of living. That statement might tick you off...but at some level you know it's true.
    What an absurd statement. Thanks for your opinion. The exchange here has been most enlightening. It's interesting to me to see how an ideologue scrambles to hang on to their beliefs, no matter what facts are presented to them.

  5. #435
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    it would apply to the lowest income voters, particularly and is more likely to be a successful tactic in areas where low-income voters are more likely to feel like low income voters due to high income discrepancy and are more likely to be on means-tested programs. California and New York are excellent examples.
    You don't think that low-income voters in Mississippi and Louisiana feel like they have a low income? And FYI, people in red states are significantly more likely to be on food stamps than people in blue states.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  6. #436
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    What an absurd statement. Thanks for your opinion. The exchange here has been most enlightening. It's interesting to me to see how an ideologue scrambles to hang on to their beliefs, no matter what facts are presented to them.
    I presented the argument to you that it's not even truly a political matter, that doesn't even lay the blame at the feet of conservatives...and you still are offended at the very concept that there might be a difference in the standards of living between relatively-urban and relatively-rural states, and the sociology therein that leads to the kinds of politicians they elect.

    In other words, you've made up your mind and no amount of hard data can change it.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  7. #437
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I presented the argument to you that it's not even truly a political matter, that doesn't even lay the blame at the feet of conservatives...and you still are offended at the very concept that there might be a difference in the standards of living between relatively-urban and relatively-rural states, and the sociology therein that leads to the kinds of politicians they elect.

    In other words, you've made up your mind and no amount of hard data can change it.
    I've thanked you for your opinion. I think that is enough. I categorically reject your attempt to assign education levels with party affiliation. It's absurd, and frankly quite gross.

    I think you've spent enough time obsessing on this matter. Probably time to obsess over some other issue you hope to convince others is real.

  8. #438
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    it would apply to the lowest income voters, particularly and is more likely to be a successful tactic in areas where low-income voters are more likely to feel like low income voters due to high income discrepancy and are more likely to be on means-tested programs. California and New York are excellent examples.
    Nice sidestep away from a trap.

    I gotta give credit when due.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  9. #439
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    I agreed to all options, because I think it always depends on the person in question.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  10. #440
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Education. That wasn't an option. Education is key. Affordable education.
    "Were going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and thats crazy." -Reagan

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