View Poll Results: What of the following does the best for eliminating poverty in the world?

Voters
1003. You may not vote on this poll
  • Private property.

    55 5.48%
  • Unions.

    315 31.41%
  • Personal liberty.

    69 6.88%
  • Entitlements.

    403 40.18%
  • Taxation

    463 46.16%
  • Freedom from coercion/association.

    52 5.18%
  • Government programs/policies.

    410 40.88%
  • The free market.

    79 7.88%
  • Class struggle.

    14 1.40%
  • Working for oneself.

    59 5.88%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: How is poverty best eliminated?

  1. #341
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    ocean515's Avatar
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Have you heard about this upcoming cap and trade gas tax starting next jan? How on earth do we have such proximity to oil and refineries and yet its somehow cheaper to refine and then truck to nevada or arizona-because of our taxes and regulations.

    The left does not care if anything is unsustainable, they would just as soon crash this nation into ruin, because they think they'd like what came after.
    I'm very much aware of the environmental regs the legislature has forced citizens and businesses in California to contend with.

    Cap and Trade was authorized by AB32, which passed in 2006. The precursor to AB32 was AB1493, which the Democrats passed in 2002, at night, on a Saturday, which made California the first government in the World to identify exhaled breath as a greenhouse gas.

    The evil of 1493 was that it came about after the public put a stop to another bill (AB1058) calling for the same definition and regulatory power to the CARB. Rather than listen to the people, the Progressives gutted another bill, slipped in the contents of the tabled bill the public didn't want, and passed it anyway.

    Read this for an accounting of AB1493/1058 and how Progressives treat the state.

    They're trying to pull a fast one by sneaking a bill similar to AB 1058 through the Legislature. This bill now has a new number. It is AB 1493 and it still seriously limits your choice of new vehicles and increases the cost of driving in California. Over the weekend, Senators gutted the bill of its original contents, which dealt with the Bureau of State Audits, and inserted the language from AB 1058. This bill has already passed the state Senate and only needs approval by the Assembly to be sent to Governor Davis and possibly be signed into law

    American Sand Association • View topic - AB 1058 is now AB 1493

  2. #342
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    As I have said before, go and work at McDonald's.

    U.S. poverty line for 2014 is (in the lower 48 states) is $11,670/yr..

    2000 hours times $7.25/hr. equals $14,500/yr..

    You want to stay out of poverty, just flip burgers and voila...you are out of poverty.

    http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/14poverty.cfm

    What about families you say?

    If both parents flip burgers, that is $29,000/yr. total income.

    The lower 48 states poverty line for a family of five is $27,910.

    The solution to poverty is...



    or


  3. #343
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    AGAIN, why are the nations that have had the highest standards of living for the past half century the SAME ones whose economies, according to conservative economic dogma, should be crashing and burning?

    You haven't answered this. You've claimed it was answered, but it never was, it never has been, not by you, not by anyone else. I remember specifically the excuses that some more serious conservatives have tried, but their excuses were shot down in every case. You yourself have not even ventured a guess, but are simply claiming it has been answered when it has not been answered at all.

    which countries are you referring to with their high standards of living?
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

  4. #344
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by fedup View Post
    Karl Marx is highly propagandized. I didn't agree with all of his ideas, but he laid out some very legitimate, intelligent arguments for a system he supposed would end or reduce poverty and human suffering. There were some good ideas, there were some bad ideas, but he is nowhere near the villain that the Right would like to make him out to be.

    I'm aware of how America approaches "property", however I simply disagree with it. I don't think land can be legitimately owned in the sense that you can own an apple or a computer. I am not against possession or homesteading of land. People would still own houses, farm/maintain land, and enjoy a little piece of the world. However claiming that land is "property" has some very disastrous environmental and social consequences. It's important that we understand and recognize that the Earth is owned by everyone.
    The land has value that is increased by its assets of natural resources or fertility, access to water, location, aesthetic beauty, etc. And if one can buy or sell rights to occupy that land and transfer such rights to their heirs or others, then land is property. Property is whatever of material or potential value that we hold or control. You simply cannot remove land from that equation.

    To own land is not necessary for prosperity, however. At some point after Constantine decreed favored status for Christianity in the Roman Empire, it would be centuries that Jews, for instance, were forbidden to own land. Which is why Jewish families went into other trades that didn't require ownership of lands--shipping, banking, etc.--but they prospered just the same. Usually more than their non-Jewish counterparts. Often all that is required for the poor to become prosperous as a) opportunity to ability to act b) the ability to see what needs/markets exist and c) the work ethic and desire to do what they need to do in order to capitalize on those needs/markets.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  5. #345
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Okay, then, edjimicate me. What nations have had the highest standards of living over the past half century, and what governmental systems and philosophies do those nations generally have in common?
    Those who have liberalized their economies. Liberalized in the classic sense that economists use, rather than in the American political sense, in which it denotes greater central direction.

  6. #346
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    To eliminate poverty in the world?

    Free market economies
    no future government pensions for those presently under 30 (or even 35 or 40).
    government shelters primarily replace welfare (except for the disabled)
    free basic healthcare for everyone that needs/wants it (full healthcare for children/disabled)
    cut world military spending by at least 1/2
    militaries go to large reserve-small full time armies
    zero/minimal government intervention in economies
    eliminate corporate taxes
    eliminate all central banks
    governments run balanced budgets
    taxation policies that encourage charitible contributions
    legalize recreational drugs
    legalize euthanasia


    No doubt there is something on this list that almost everyone likes and almost everyone hates...which must mean it is a good solution.

    Last edited by DA60; 08-21-14 at 02:27 AM.

  7. #347
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Those who have liberalized their economies. Liberalized in the classic sense that economists use, rather than in the American political sense, in which it denotes greater central direction.
    Its an ironic name for the left to have taken over.

  8. #348
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    Glen Contrarian's Avatar
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Those who have liberalized their economies. Liberalized in the classic sense that economists use, rather than in the American political sense, in which it denotes greater central direction.
    So...which economies are more heavily regulated, and which are not?
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  9. #349
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    which countries are you referring to with their high standards of living?
    All - repeat, all - the first-world democracies...all of which are socialized democracies, including America.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  10. #350
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Oh geeze, the red state, blue state lie. How many times has that been explained?
    None, as far as I've seen - of course, I don't see all your posts - maybe you have and I simply didn't see it. If you can explain why it is that the blue states generally pay out more federal taxes than they receive, and why the red states generally receive more in federal funding than they pay out, please, enlighten me!

    And while you're at it, please explain why red states generally:

    - have higher divorce rates
    - have higher teenage pregnancy rates
    - have lower educational attainment rates
    - have lower life expectancy rates
    - have higher poverty rates

    Yes, I can back up each of these. I look forward to your reply.

    I know, it's a critical issue to overlook obvious reasons for disparities in who pays out, and who pays in. Such a lame argument.
    It is? What, exactly, are the 'obvious reasons'?

    Fact, California has structured is tax system to burden high income earners more than any other state. The most recent tax increase that Progressives pushed through placed the highest burden for paying for the government on the rich.
    Y'know, California's taxes aren't much higher than here in Washington...yet most of the major businesses here in Washington (Microsoft, Amazon, Boeing, et al) don't seem to be fleeing, and the richest man in the world (Bill Gates) certainly isn't running away from Washington state. Come to think of it, the most recent CEO of Microsoft (Steve Ballmer) just invested 2B in California when he bought the Clippers.

    Here is the problem with this approach. The Progressives here have managed to place California at the top of the list with the highest Supplemental Poverty Rate in the nation. The money to pay for all this comes primarily from the rich. So in order to maintain this Progressive society approach, the rich need to stay rich, and get richer.
    Please define "supplemental poverty rate"...because before I reply, I want to make sure we're talking about the same thing. I say that because under the 'supplemental poverty rate', California's poverty rate is 23.8%...whereas under the traditional measure of the poverty rate, it's 13.2%. And regardless of which metric you use, the significant majority of states with the highest poverty rates are RED states.

    Unfortunately, the Progressives also want to punish the rich, and do things to reduce this income disparity. So how is a state so very dependent on the rich, going to stay economically viable, if their focus is the punish the rich, and the businesses many of the rich own?
    Perhaps the same way that the financial capital of the world - New York City - has remained as such since at least WWII. You see, it's not just California that has high taxes - it's also New York, and there's been scads of rich people in both states for longer than either one of us has been alive. Sure, you might find a few here or there that do leave because of taxes...but most don't. Instead, they stay...and they continue to MAKE money in both states...because if the rich didn't continue to make money as they have done so for generations, they wouldn't stay, now would they?

    Again, as evidenced by California's economic results, and the massive increase in poverty California Progressives have managed to create, the trajectory is unsustainable. Cities have filed for bankruptcy as a result of these agenda's.
    Again, you say California's economy is going to crash and burn...and I say it won't. You and I will be on DP for a some time to come, and here's a prediction: five years from now, CA's economy will still be improving, and you'll still claim it isn't, that it's still about to crash and burn.

    As to where the money comes from, I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to infer, and have no real interest in learning what imaginary ideas you have to explain your point on it.
    Hey - you're the one who's claiming that the only thing that's holding up CA's economy is "other peoples' money"...whereas in reality, California receives about 78 cents in federal funding for every dollar it pays out in federal taxes. In fact, if you'll check the same reference, you'll find that almost all red states receive more in federal funding than they pay out in federal taxes...which means that we in blue states are essentially paying to help red state economies stay afloat.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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