View Poll Results: What of the following does the best for eliminating poverty in the world?

Voters
1003. You may not vote on this poll
  • Private property.

    55 5.48%
  • Unions.

    315 31.41%
  • Personal liberty.

    69 6.88%
  • Entitlements.

    403 40.18%
  • Taxation

    463 46.16%
  • Freedom from coercion/association.

    52 5.18%
  • Government programs/policies.

    410 40.88%
  • The free market.

    79 7.88%
  • Class struggle.

    14 1.40%
  • Working for oneself.

    59 5.88%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: How is poverty best eliminated?

  1. #21
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    What works best to eliminate poverty? Multiple options are available.
    I believe your best answer would be to look at the nations that have the lowest levels of poverty, and see what they are doing - and copy what they do as best we can. Then look at the nations with the highest levels of poverty and see what they are doing - and don't do what they do.

    You know where this is going, don't you?

    Yes, you do - because the nations with the lowest levels of poverty are the socialized first-world democracies...whereas the nations with the highest levels of poverty are those nations with small governments, low effective taxes, and weak regulation.

    And as we can see by the nations of the world, what works best is that "Goldilocks level" of strong government, high effective taxation, and strong regulation, all balanced by free enterprise, and by providing as much assistance to small businesses to help them succeed as we can. How do we determine the balance? By keeping government OUT of places where the profit motive rules i.e. the free market, and also by keeping Big Business OUT of places where the profit motive does not belong (like schools, prisons, and other public services).

    America once understood this...until some went on a "privatize everything" rant.
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  2. #22
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baralis View Post
    We will never "eliminate" poverty unless we simply give enough of a handout that everyone is raised out of poverty.
    Not only would that be unsustainable but where has that ever worked?

  3. #23
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Yes, you do - because the nations with the lowest levels of poverty are the socialized first-world democracies...whereas the nations with the highest levels of poverty are those nations with small governments, low effective taxes, and weak regulation.
    "Socialized" nations do not have the worlds poor floating there on tires. The US does. How do you explain this?

  4. #24
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    Morality Games's Avatar
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Not only have tax revenues gone up since we lowered nominal rates, but the tax code has become more progressive - our tax code now leans more heavily on upper income earners as a share of revenue than any other nation in the OECD.

    Additionally, the "bring the economy to them" approach has grown and overgrown. We now spend more than a trillion dollars a year on 126 separate poverty reduction programs. If we just divvied up the money we spent on the poor and gave it to them, there would be zero poverty in the US.



    Yeah. It's handy when you can just re-define poverty. In China, for example, if you make $5 a day, you're part of the middle class.

    The average poor american lives in a house the size of the average european middle class.
    Point 1: I don't know why you are even talking to me about this. You *know* I'm just going to say something like, "Indeed. 7% tax rate for a company like Apple that is heavily, heavily reliant on the United States for infrastructure, security, and legal assistance is definitely a defining example of progressive taxation." The bottom line is that Apple has gotten more out of its relationship with the people of the United States and its government than we've gotten out of Apple. It's a mostly one sided relationship.

    Progressive taxation is gutted and dead. The right-wing has lost any vigorous interest in reforming the tax code because the situation they have now will certainly be better than any Grand Bargain tax reform they can wring out of the Democrats.

    Point 2: And my family owns (or has owned) a meagre number of acres that would be worth millions in England. When you have a third of the population of the United States in a territory the size of Iowa, you wouldn't expect to have a very large house. Just because they're challenged when it comes to a specific resource doesn't say anything about their overall living standards or quality of life.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 08-15-14 at 01:01 AM.
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    To those who voted for both unions and Freedom from coercion/association, I'd be interested in hearing how you came to this seemingly contradictory conclusion.

  6. #26
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I believe your best answer would be to look at the nations that have the lowest levels of poverty, and see what they are doing - and copy what they do as best we can. Then look at the nations with the highest levels of poverty and see what they are doing - and don't do what they do.

    You know where this is going, don't you?

    Yes, you do - because the nations with the lowest levels of poverty are the socialized first-world democracies...whereas the nations with the highest levels of poverty are those nations with small governments, low effective taxes, and weak regulation.

    And as we can see by the nations of the world, what works best is that "Goldilocks level" of strong government, high effective taxation, and strong regulation, all balanced by free enterprise, and by providing as much assistance to small businesses to help them succeed as we can. How do we determine the balance? By keeping government OUT of places where the profit motive rules i.e. the free market, and also by keeping Big Business OUT of places where the profit motive does not belong (like schools, prisons, and other public services).

    America once understood this...until some went on a "privatize everything" rant.
    Do you have any data to back up your claims?
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  7. #27
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    To those who voted for both unions and Freedom from coercion/association, I'd be interested in hearing how you came to this seemingly contradictory conclusion.
    Yeah, I bet you're really curious.

    If you lived in a mining town in the 1950s where the mining company owns all the local businesses and banks, then stopping you from voicing complaints about the company's safety policies is as simple as denying an extension on your mortgage (despite the fact your credit is fine). The same example is applicable to pretty much any job: accepting the position entails committing to a residence, taxes, and local institutions like schools. Your employer can use those investments against you to ensure compliance with company policy even when objectionable.

    For some reason, that kind of soft power doesn't pass as coercion among conservatives, but the soft power of a Union's collective bargaining definitely does.
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Yeah, I bet you're really curious.

    If you lived in a mining town in the 1950s where the mining company owns all the local businesses and banks, then stopping you from voicing complaints about the company's safety policies is as simple as denying an extension on your mortgage (despite the fact your credit is fine). The same example is applicable to pretty much any job: accepting the position entails committing to a residence, taxes, and local institutions like schools. Your employer can use those investments against you to ensure compliance with company policy even when objectionable.

    For some reason, that kind of soft power doesn't pass as coercion among conservatives, but the soft power of a Union's collective bargaining definitely does.
    We aren't in the 50's. Unions are anti-competition and therefore not as beneficial to the consumer, they also force those involved into their politics and funding. Now, people dont HAVE to work that job, but then we have less jobs and therefore less opportunity for the individual.

    Why do the injustices of the past justify these injustices in the modern day?

  9. #29
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    We aren't in the 50's. Unions are anti-competition and therefore not as beneficial to the consumer, they also force those involved into their politics and funding. Now, people dont HAVE to work that job, but then we have less jobs and therefore less opportunity for the individual.

    Why do the injustices of the past justify these injustices in the modern day?
    I hate Unions, but the math says they have a net influence on the value of labor, which forces the rich to surrender a portion of their investment in the trading pool that is our economy.

    The monopoly of the rich over the trading pool is America's single greatest barrier to balanced budgets and sustainable economic growth. Its a mini-feudal structure hidden inside a shell of economic liberalism. A gigantic undermining influence in American capitalism.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

    St. Benedict

  10. #30
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    I hate Unions, but the math says they have a net influence on the value of labor, which forces the rich to surrender a portion of their investment in the trading pool that is our economy.

    The monopoly of the rich over the trading pool is America's single greatest barrier to balanced budgets and sustainable economic growth. Its a mini-feudal structure hidden inside a shell of economic liberalism. A gigantic undermining influence in American capitalism.
    Pssst...your socialism is showing. How is forcibly taking from some to give to others capitalist?

    Were you for the bailouts as well?

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