View Poll Results: What of the following does the best for eliminating poverty in the world?

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  • Private property.

    55 5.48%
  • Unions.

    315 31.41%
  • Personal liberty.

    69 6.88%
  • Entitlements.

    403 40.18%
  • Taxation

    463 46.16%
  • Freedom from coercion/association.

    52 5.18%
  • Government programs/policies.

    410 40.88%
  • The free market.

    79 7.88%
  • Class struggle.

    14 1.40%
  • Working for oneself.

    59 5.88%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: How is poverty best eliminated?

  1. #241
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    Land is, and has been, property. It is owned.
    Nope. Land has been homesteaded and possessed. It has never been owned. Ownership presupposes creation and the right to destroy. Land "ownership" entails neither.

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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    It's Georgism. It runs on the false belief that we all own the earth. Anyone with that belief can't be expected to establish the ownership of all the land of the earth to all the people of the planet. It's a false belief that has to run on the unproven assumption that because we are born we own something other than ourselves.

    Yes, I am aware of his beliefs. He makes them known all the time.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by fedup View Post
    Nope. Land has been homesteaded, and possessed. It has never been owned. Ownership presupposes creation and the right to destroy. Land "ownership" entails neither.
    Wrong.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by fedup View Post
    Nope. Land has been homesteaded and possessed. It has never been owned. Ownership presupposes creation and the right to destroy. Land "ownership" entails neither.
    No, it doesn't. You own things that come from the earth like apples, and acorns and there is no requirement that you planted the tree yourself.

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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by fedup View Post
    Land is not property. Property comes with an inherent right to destroy, and you have no right to destroy land. Property also presupposes creation, land can not be created.

    Supporting "private property" is the intellectual equivalent of supporting mythical creatures. Private property does not exist, therefore any "support" for it is meaningless and subjective.
    Very Marxian in concept. However, we Americans pretty much go with the English common law concept when it comes to the land. In English common law, real property or real estate or any immovable property that is legally defined along with improvements to it such as buildings, machinery, wells, dams, ponds, mines, canals, roads, etc. are indeed a person's private property when legally purchased or acquired. Real property and personal property are the two main subunits of property in English Common Law.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  6. #246
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    IMO the best way is to minimize regulations, requirements, and taxes.

    Not eliminate, for there are good reasons for some regulations and requirements.

    Taxes to.

    But the less regulations and requirements someone needs to meet, the faster they can get stuff done.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  7. #247
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You own things that come from the earth like apples, and acorns and there is no requirement that you planted the tree yourself.
    Ownership doesn't presuppose your creation, it presupposes creation in general. You don't have to create everything you own for you to own it. It can be created by someone else and then traded or bought. That is the legitimate transfer of property. If I plant an apple tree, and then trade you some of my apples for your oranges, that is the legitimate transfer of property.

    The same thing cannot be done with land. Land was always here and it is commonly owned by everyone. No one individual has a right to land just because they say they do.

    I am not against the possession and homesteading of land, however it is important that we establish it is not a legitimate form of property.

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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Wrong.
    What a brilliant, well thought-out, and intelligent rebuttal.


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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Maybe they shouldn't have babies if they can't afford to feed them.
    Maybe, then, we should sterilize them like the eugenicists want.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Very Marxian in concept.
    Karl Marx is highly propagandized. I didn't agree with all of his ideas, but he laid out some very legitimate, intelligent arguments for a system he supposed would end or reduce poverty and human suffering. There were some good ideas, there were some bad ideas, but he is nowhere near the villain that the Right would like to make him out to be.

    However, we Americans pretty much go with the English common law concept when it comes to the land. In English common law, real property or real estate or any immovable property that is legally defined along with improvements to it such as buildings, machinery, wells, dams, ponds, mines, canals, roads, etc. are indeed a person's private property when legally purchased or acquired. Real property and personal property are the two main subunits of property in English Common Law
    I'm aware of how America approaches "property", however I simply disagree with it. I don't think land can be legitimately owned in the sense that you can own an apple or a computer. I am not against possession or homesteading of land. People would still own houses, farm/maintain land, and enjoy a little piece of the world. However claiming that land is "property" has some very disastrous environmental and social consequences. It's important that we understand and recognize that the Earth is owned by everyone.

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