View Poll Results: What of the following does the best for eliminating poverty in the world?

Voters
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  • Private property.

    55 5.48%
  • Unions.

    315 31.41%
  • Personal liberty.

    69 6.88%
  • Entitlements.

    403 40.18%
  • Taxation

    463 46.16%
  • Freedom from coercion/association.

    52 5.18%
  • Government programs/policies.

    410 40.88%
  • The free market.

    79 7.88%
  • Class struggle.

    14 1.40%
  • Working for oneself.

    59 5.88%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: How is poverty best eliminated?

  1. #231
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    The Mark's Avatar
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Well, I don't know about the US article, but progressivism puts all the emphasis on the collective and gives all the control and responsibility to the government which must be controlled by progressives. Any who oppose such a government are usually considered wrong, evil, bad, selfish, or other uncomplimentary characterizations. To the progressive, it is the government's responsibility to order society in the progressive mold and address the major problems of humankind including poverty and only the most heartless among us would object to government programs, however ineffective or destructive, that are presented as efforts to fix what is wrong with society. We are not to question results or consequences--a noble sounding title on the program is considered adequate to support it, and good intentions are all important while the end result is immaterial. If the program is not delivering as advertised, then it is underfunded and needs to be made bigger and more powerful.

    Or evil, selfish, hateful, greedy conservatives prevented it from being effective.

    Individual property, initiative, liberty, options, choices, opportunity, and possibilities are set aside or squashed all in the interest of the 'common good' as government decrees it to be.

    The progressive dismisses all arguments by non-progressives to end poverty. If government does not address poverty and fix it, in the progressive's mind it won't happen.
    I don't think you're describing actual progressiveism here.

    Sounds more like communism without the naked force.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  2. #232
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    They aren't doing it right.
    Then that poster needs to elaborate because it obviously takes more than just "hard work" to deal with poverty.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  3. #233
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    I support the private possession of land. But I do not view it as property in the sense that capital is property. Capital is created. Land is not. We are all born with a right to access what nature has provided. It only makes sense that I pay a fee if I am to hold it in exclusion.
    So in other words, you do not support private property.

    The whole line of reasoning makes no sense at all.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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  4. #234
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    I support the private possession of land. But I do not view it as property in the sense that capital is property. Capital is created. Land is not. We are all born with a right to access what nature has provided. It only makes sense that I pay a fee if I am to hold it in exclusion.
    I agree with you that possession of land is not a legitimate form of property, however I do have a question about this "fee" you are referring to. Who is the "fee" paid to? Where does it go?

  5. #235
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by fedup View Post
    I agree with you that possession of land is not a legitimate form of property, however I do have a question about this "fee" you are referring to. Who is the "fee" paid to? Where does it go?
    Government. He is talking about an element of Georgism, btw.

  6. #236
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    So in other words, you do not support private property.

    Which makes no sense at all.
    Land is not property. Property comes with an inherent right to destroy, and you have no right to destroy land. Property also presupposes creation, land can not be created.

    Supporting "private property" is the intellectual equivalent of supporting mythical creatures. Private property does not exist, therefore any "support" for it is meaningless and subjective.

  7. #237
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    So in other words, you do not support private property.

    The whole line of reasoning makes no sense at all.
    It's Georgism. It runs on the false belief that we all own the earth. Anyone with that belief can't be expected to establish the ownership of all the land of the earth to all the people of the planet. It's a false belief that has to run on the unproven assumption that because we are born we own something other than ourselves.

  8. #238
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    I support the private possession of land. But I do not view it as property in the sense that capital is property. Capital is created. Land is not. We are all born with a right to access what nature has provided. It only makes sense that I pay a fee if I am to hold it in exclusion.
    Is that not property taxes and the purchase of the property? Are you a socialist?

  9. #239
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by fedup View Post
    Land is not property. Property comes with an inherent right to destroy, and you have no right to destroy land. Property also presupposes creation, land can not be created.

    Supporting "private property" is the intellectual equivalent of supporting mythical creatures. Private property does not exist, therefore any "support" for it is meaningless and subjective.

    Land is, and has been, property. It is owned.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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  10. #240
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    Re: How is poverty best eliminated?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I don't think you're describing actual progressiveism here.

    Sounds more like communism without the naked force.
    At such time as the government decides to confiscate all the property and private businesses and make them part of the collective, that's pretty much what it will be as it exists or has existed in totalitarian countries. The naked force is already in place.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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