View Poll Results: Do we live in a free country?

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  • Yes

    41 42.27%
  • Nope

    37 38.14%
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    19 19.59%
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Thread: Do We Live in a Free Country?

  1. #171
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    yobarnacle's Avatar
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    Re: Do We Live in a Free Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Mittner View Post
    Those two things can't logically go together.

    Emergency powers does not give the Executive any legislative ability whatsoever, therefor it cannot be the reason for the creation of laws. Laws still originate from Congress and Congress alone. The Executive has a varying level of authority to determine how to apply and enforce the laws in practice, but that's the entire purpose of that branch of government and some level of authority has been present since the founding of this country.
    Agreed. That's the Constitution view. Not matching reality. Execurive orders and executive mandates for fed agency regulations have the FORCE of law but aren't.
    We are supposed to be ruled by legislated laws not executive whim.

    The congress doesn't have authority to extend presidential authority. That would require an amendment ratified by 3/4s of the states. But they do it and president acts like it's his power.
    Last edited by yobarnacle; 08-30-14 at 07:18 PM.
    If you live long enough, you will live in a foreign country, because the past is foreign to the present. We lived differently then. The only constant is change!

  2. #172
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    Re: Do We Live in a Free Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by yobarnacle View Post
    Agreed. That's the Constitution view. Not matching reality. Execurive orders and executive mandates for fed agency regulations have the FORCE of law but aren't.
    We are supposed to be ruled by legislated laws not executive whim.

    The congress doesn't have authority to extend presidential authority. That would require an amendment ratified by 3/5s of the states. But they do it and president acts like it's his power.
    Yeah, shame on Lincoln for issuing the Emancipation Proclamation! What an unforgivable abuse of executive power!
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  3. #173
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    Re: Do We Live in a Free Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Yeah, shame on Lincoln for issuing the Emancipation Proclamation! What an unforgivable abuse of executive power!
    I'm not sure whether I agree or not, but I do know that the ends don't actually justify the means.

    So it's at least possible that Lincoln badly overstepped his authority.
    Education.

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  4. #174
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    Re: Do We Live in a Free Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by yobarnacle View Post
    Agreed. That's the Constitution view. Not matching reality. Execurive orders and executive mandates for fed agency regulations have the FORCE of law but aren't.
    We are supposed to be ruled by legislated laws not executive whim.

    The congress doesn't have authority to extend presidential authority. That would require an amendment ratified by 3/4s of the states. But they do it and president acts like it's his power.
    Who says Congress can't extend presidential authority? The 10th Amendment clearly gives all powers not inherently given to the federal government, to the states and the people. The Senate represents the states and the House represents the people. if the states and people decide, through their representatives, to extend presidential authority, there's nothing in the Constitution that prevents it.

    Just like there's nothing preventing Congress from legislating the CDC, FDA, FCC, BLM, FBI, or any of the other dozens or hundreds of federal agencies that have been created since the formation of the country.

    An example of this is federal land.
    During the whole Bundy fiasco you had a lot of people demanding that the federal government give Nevada all that land that's under federal control. What they seemed not to realize is that Nevada didn't want that to maintain that land. They had the right to it when the land was purchased from Mexico and the state borders were drawn, but the state chose to yield that claim to the federal government. And it thus fell under the jurisdiction of the branches of the federal government.

  5. #175
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    Re: Do We Live in a Free Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Yeah, shame on Lincoln for issuing the Emancipation Proclamation! What an unforgivable abuse of executive power!
    You miss the history and swallow the hype.
    Missouri, Kentucky, West Virginia, Maryland and Delaware were slave states but did not secede. Lincoln didn't abolish slavery ANYWHERE. He CLAIMED to abolish slavery only in the rebellious areas, over which he wasn't a recognized authority. Louisiana was still part of the Confederacy but many parishes were under union occupation.
    In those parishes Lincoln stated the emancipation proclamation didn't apply. Slaves were still slaves in all Union held/controlled territory.
    Last edited by yobarnacle; 08-30-14 at 08:09 PM.
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  6. #176
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    Re: Do We Live in a Free Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Mittner View Post
    Who says Congress can't extend presidential authority? The 10th Amendment clearly gives all powers not inherently given to the federal government, to the states and the people. The Senate represents the states and the House represents the people. if the states and people decide, through their representatives, to extend presidential authority, there's nothing in the Constitution that prevents it.

    Just like there's nothing preventing Congress from legislating the CDC, FDA, FCC, BLM, FBI, or any of the other dozens or hundreds of federal agencies that have been created since the formation of the country.

    An example of this is federal land.
    During the whole Bundy fiasco you had a lot of people demanding that the federal government give Nevada all that land that's under federal control. What they seemed not to realize is that Nevada didn't want that to maintain that land. They had the right to it when the land was purchased from Mexico and the state borders were drawn, but the state chose to yield that claim to the federal government. And it thus fell under the jurisdiction of the branches of the federal government.

    "The Senate represents the states and the House represents the people." are part of the federal government. They can't give power to themselves beyond what the Constitution delegates.
    THAT is what the 10th amendment says.
    And the senate hasn't represented the state governments since 1913. From the beginning, senators were elected by state legislatures to represent state government.
    "With a campaign for a state-led constitutional amendment gaining strength, and a fear that this could result in a "runaway convention", the proposal to mandate direct elections for the Senate was finally introduced in the Congress. It was passed by the Congress and, on May 13, 1912, was submitted to the states for ratification. By April 8, 1913, three-fourths of the states had ratified the proposed amendment, making it the Seventeenth Amendment. Secretary of State William Jennings Bryan formally declared the amendment's adoption on May 31, 1913."
    And a big chunk of our liberty went down the toilet. Ever after senators don't serve their legislatures. They do what they please. They went from servant to status of princes over us.
    If you live long enough, you will live in a foreign country, because the past is foreign to the present. We lived differently then. The only constant is change!

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