View Poll Results: Is Obama right to go back into Iraq?

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Thread: Is Obama right to go back into Iraq?

  1. #21
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    Re: Is Obama right to go back into Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    The whole point of centrism is that you don't lean.
    Not true. With anything else, there is a spectrum. The spectrum of centrism, however you want to measure the spectrum, exists.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  2. #22
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    Re: Is Obama right to go back into Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    The whole point of centrism is that you don't lean.



    When did I say that? I'm definitely pretty centrist. I even straddle the fence on economics.



    I took the quiz. I got "left-pragmatist" while trending very close to the center. I don't like that quiz though, I felt like alot of the questions were unnecessary and even one-sided at times.

    Political Survey: Results
    So you lean left. Even if you consider yourself a centrist-there are left-leaning centrists. Take different polls to get a better idea-but think back to your earlier post in this thread-what are the odds you were exactly in the center? Very slim.

    As for your "point of centrism" comment-wow. Are you saying you look at the spectrum and then form your views based on being in the "center" of them? How is that anything but purely reactionary?
    Last edited by US Conservative; 08-12-14 at 01:18 AM.

  3. #23
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    Re: Is Obama right to go back into Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by zoetherat View Post
    I think we should arm and train the Kurds and support them with airstrikes as we're doing. We spend money all around the world every year to help local governments fight terrorists using arms, training, and airstrikes, and the forces we help are often far more incompetent and corrupt then the Kurds. So why not help the Kurds in this way? The only reason that I can think of for why we'd help someone like the Nigerian government, but not the Kurds is the politics of American intervention in Iraq. Look, we might not be able to destroy Isis. The Shiites politicians might have damaged their cause beyond repair. The Gulf states might prefer jihadists to Iranian interests. The region may be screwed indefinitely. Yet, helping the Kurds is something simple we can do easily that gives the region a chance. After lavishing all that equipment on the Shiites only to see them abandon it and run, why not give some weapons to someone that actually wants to fight? And on top of that, we kind of owe the Kurds, and this might help prevent a humanitarian catastrophe.
    These are the Kurds of Iraq-why help them but not the sunni's or shiites? Why are we being sectarian, if thats the issue?

  4. #24
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    Re: Is Obama right to go back into Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    These are the Kurds of Iraq-why help them but not the sunni's or shiites? Why are we being sectarian, if thats the issue?
    The Shiites screwed over the Sunnis after the last war. Consequently, the Sunnis are mostly with Isis now. We shouldn't help the Shiites until they get rid of Maliki. Otherwise, we'd be rewarding him for causing this mess. The Iraqi army of Sunnis and Shiites outnumbered Isis at least 15 to 1 and was better armed (with equipment we gave them) and they still fled. If we arm the Kurds, we at least know it's not going to be a complete waste.

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    Re: Is Obama right to go back into Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    We aren't talking about the invasion of Iraq (over and done with) we are talking about what to do NOW, in light of recent developments.
    The war on terror was NEVER about getting one man-and to leave both Iraq and Afghanistan worse than when we got there, with a newly forming terrorist state simply boggles the mind.

    We are there to destroy our enemies and plant fear in their hearts, and to let them no that there is no timeline for this-as long as they bring it-death will be the response. We got quite good at fighting low intensity counter insurgency operations since 9/11-we need to keep it up and as importantly SUPPORT OUR ALLIES, instead of leaving them to the terrorist wolves-these thugs hate EVERYONE including fellow muslims and other nations who have nothing to do with them-its a pandemic.

    This is what we should do-expose them to large amounts of kinetic energy and send em back to allah in style.
    You are falling in the same trap as Bush, these terrorists thrive on fear, it is their food. You want to feed them endlessly and then are surprised at how they multiply. There is no amount of military force that will stop desperate young men from becoming terrorists short of killing all the young men. That is genocide and not an option so we have to wait until they take up arms or strap a bomb to their chest. We have put ourself in the middle of a 1000 year old power struggle and must step carefully. That said, since ISIS is now in possession of many of the weapons we gave the Iraqi's it is now our responsibility to take out as many of them as we can. Since Maliki has never sent any arms to the Kurds we must also make sure they are now getting them either from Bagdad or us. The other part is the formation of a new inclusive Govt. that gives Sunnis a voice and will hopefully change their minds about ISIS like we changed their minds about Alqaeda in the "awakening".

    With much of Iraq now besieged by an Al Qaeda splinter group called the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, Shibib is in no hurry to pick up his weapons again. To do so, he said, would be to defend a corrupt government that has cast aside or jailed his former fighters and systematically oppressed his fellow Sunnis.
    “If ISIS were to show up here, I would step aside and point them in the direction of the Green Zone,” Shibib said, referring to the former U.S.-run enclave in central Baghdad that is now the seat of the Iraqi government. “If they have any quarrel, they can take it up with them.”
    Onetime U.S. allies in Sunni Awakening sit out new Iraq conflict - LA Times

    It was your man Bush who yelled "bring it on" and flew a fighter jet onto a carrier to give a speech behind a mission accomplished banner.
    And today we see the results. Results matter...I think it is Fenton that always says that.

    Last edited by iguanaman; 08-12-14 at 01:47 AM.

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    Re: Is Obama right to go back into Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    You are falling in the same trap as Bush, these terrorists thrive on fear, it is their food. You want to feed them endlessly and then are surprised at how they multiply. There is no amount of military force that will stop desperate young men from becoming terrorists short of killing all the young men. That is genocide and not an option. We have put ourself in the middle of a 1000 year old power struggle and must step carefully. That said, since ISIS is now in possession of many of the weapons we gave the Iraqi's it is now our responsibility to take out as many of them as we can. Since Maliki has never sent any arms to the Kurds we must also make sure they are now getting them either from Bagdad or us. The other part is the formation of a new inclusive Govt. that gives Sunnis a voice and will hopefully change their minds about ISIS like we changed their minds about Alqaeda in the "awakening".



    Onetime U.S. allies in Sunni Awakening sit out new Iraq conflict - LA Times
    Look, I dont care what they want. I dont care to make sense of these people. They would not care if we did. What WE need to do is kill our enemies, like I said we got quite good at COIN warfare. Eventually the stream will dry up, as it did before Obama squandered the peace-which is evidence that we need to commit to solving the problem, NOT committing to dates on a calendar.

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    Re: Is Obama right to go back into Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by zoetherat View Post
    The Shiites screwed over the Sunnis after the last war. Consequently, the Sunnis are mostly with Isis now. We shouldn't help the Shiites until they get rid of Maliki. Otherwise, we'd be rewarding him for causing this mess. The Iraqi army of Sunnis and Shiites outnumbered Isis at least 15 to 1 and was better armed (with equipment we gave them) and they still fled. If we arm the Kurds, we at least know it's not going to be a complete waste.
    Understood, but the problem isn't lack of armament or experience-the kurds know how to fight-what they DONT know how to do is stand up against a constant stream of islamists. We need to commit to expelling ISIS, or not go in at all.

  8. #28
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    Re: Is Obama right to go back into Iraq?

    I have an idea to resolve the earlier argument about the poll options. There are many people on this forum who don't identify with either the left or the right, myself included. There are considerably less people who are not Americans on the forum, as Telekat pointed out. I think we should scrap the poll options most people list and replace it with something like this:

    I lean to the left, yes.
    I lean to the right, yes.
    I do not lean significantly left or right, yes.
    I lean to the left, no.
    I lean to the right, no.
    I do not lean significantly left or right, no.

    Notice the key word that is underlined, bolded, and in italics. Significantly. Like US Conservative pointed out, the majority of people lean one way or the other, but in many cases, this lean is not significant enough to bother mentioning. I, for example, lean almost imperceptibly to the right. I put a higher priority on economic issues than on social issues, so I could, just barely, be said to lean right. I don't see how this is even remotely significant enough to mention, but the polls usually only give options involving a lean.

    Opinions and feedback are appreciated, as are likes.
    Last edited by Jesse Booth; 08-12-14 at 01:46 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by truthatallcost View Post
    Pepe Booth strikes again.

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    Re: Is Obama right to go back into Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Look, I dont care what they want. I dont care to make sense of these people. They would not care if we did. What WE need to do is kill our enemies, like I said we got quite good at COIN warfare. Eventually the stream will dry up, as it did before Obama squandered the peace-which is evidence that we need to commit to solving the problem, NOT committing to dates on a calendar.
    We won last time because the Sunnis switched sides. That won't happen again now that they know the Shiites won't keep their word.

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    Re: Is Obama right to go back into Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Look, I dont care what they want. I dont care to make sense of these people. They would not care if we did. What WE need to do is kill our enemies, like I said we got quite good at COIN warfare. Eventually the stream will dry up, as it did before Obama squandered the peace-which is evidence that we need to commit to solving the problem, NOT committing to dates on a calendar.
    Ask the Israelis, the stream NEVER dries up. We must divert it like we did in the awakening before we sold the Sunnis out by picking Maliki to lead. That was the "success" of the surge. It was not our prowess at warfare or the extra troops. Stop kidding yourself, the problem will never be solved with more violence, quite the opposite.

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