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Should it be a crime for....

Should it be a crime for US Elected Officials to lie to US Citizens?

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Kal'Stang

Kal'Stang

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Should it be a crime for an elected official to lie to the people on open airwaves, in person etc etc? Now I don't mean lying to other governments and what not. I'm talking about lying to US Citizens.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Should it be a crime for an elected official to lie to the people on open airwaves, in person etc etc? Now I don't mean lying to other governments and what not. I'm talking about lying to US Citizens.
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You would first have to show that the intension was to intentionally decieve. There is a difference in being wrong and lying. Also, do you go after the person who said it, or where it orginiated from . For example if politician A gets information from their intelligence agency that was a lie, is he at fault for it or is the agency that originated the lie in trouble here under that new rule?
 
Kal'Stang said:
Should it be a crime for an elected official to lie to the people on open airwaves, in person etc etc? Now I don't mean lying to other governments and what not. I'm talking about lying to US Citizens.
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It would require an amendment. Then what would constitute a lie? As much as I would like to make it unlawful, there are too many complications with outlawing speech of any kind. I would suggest that instead of prosecuting them criminally they be subject to civil prosecution by citizens and the citizens can go for damages.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Should it be a crime for an elected official to lie to the people on open airwaves, in person etc etc? Now I don't mean lying to other governments and what not. I'm talking about lying to US Citizens.
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how would this crime be punished?
 
TheNextEra said:
You would first have to show that the intension was to intentionally decieve. There is a difference in being wrong and lying. Also, do you go after the person who said it, or where it orginiated from . For example if politician A gets information from their intelligence agency that was a lie, is he at fault for it or is the agency that originated the lie in trouble here under that new rule?
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I'm talking about intentionally lying. Being wrong is understandable. Flat out lying is not. So if the CIA gives X politician false info then that is not the politicians fault. And yes, if the CIA operative gives intentional false information they should be held accountable.
 
I think it should be a crime for publically elected officials to lie to the public at all, with the exception of keeping national security secrets. Transparency ought to be expected in every transaction with the American people. Of course, that would end politics as we know it, which is a really good thing.
 
Kal'Stang said:
I'm talking about intentionally lying. Being wrong is understandable. Flat out lying is not. So if the CIA gives X politician false info then that is not the politicians fault. And yes, if the CIA operative gives intentional false information they should be held accountable.
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and that brings up the question of how does one hold the CIA, or the government for that matter, accountable for telling lies?
 
Kal'Stang said:
Suggestions?
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The immediate removal from public office and the inability to run for any publically elected office for at least 10 years? Of course, the entire government would find itself on the streets in about 3 minutes.
 
Kal'Stang said:
I'm talking about intentionally lying. Being wrong is understandable. Flat out lying is not. So if the CIA gives X politician false info then that is not the politicians fault. And yes, if the CIA operative gives intentional false information they should be held accountable.
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Well still you have the trouble of proving intentional deceit and how or even whom will you get to decide that? I'm not dogging your idea only continue it on for further discussion and possible pitfalls.
 
PirateMk1 said:
It would require an amendment. Then what would constitute a lie? As much as I would like to make it unlawful, there are too many complications with outlawing speech of any kind. I would suggest that instead of prosecuting them criminally they be subject to civil prosecution by citizens and the citizens can go for damages.
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Yes, and it depends on the circumstances. Lying under oath should be punished accordingly.
But as a rule, citizens speak through elections. If we don't mind being lied to, as it so often seems, we have to live with the consequence of our choices.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Should it be a crime for an elected official to lie to the people on open airwaves, in person etc etc? Now I don't mean lying to other governments and what not. I'm talking about lying to US Citizens.
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It certainly should be defined, when it is criminal.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
and that brings up the question of how does one hold the CIA, or the government for that matter, accountable for telling lies?
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Sunshine. Nothing disinfects better. Put very strict limits on what can be kept secret, and make it that EVERY Representative and Senator, and the Judges of the Supreme court have access to any and ALL confidential information and that any Senator or Representative or Supreme court justice may access ANY government or government run facility at will. Its kind of hard to be able to Represent one constituents when one isn't able to access ALL of the information available.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Should it be a crime for an elected official to lie to the people on open airwaves, in person etc etc? Now I don't mean lying to other governments and what not. I'm talking about lying to US Citizens.
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No, largely because what is or isn't a lie is extremely hard to prove and it would be massively politicized. Absolutely not. M
 
Lovebug said:
Yes, and it depends on the circumstances. Lying under oath should be punished accordingly.
But as a rule, citizens speak through elections. If we don't mind being lied to, as it so often seems, we have to live with the consequence of our choices.
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Unfortunately, we don't have a choice, the American system of government, as it stands now, is inherently corrupt. Not one person who gets elected remains pure, they cannot do their jobs without being corrupted by the procedure.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Should it be a crime for an elected official to lie to the people on open airwaves, in person etc etc? Now I don't mean lying to other governments and what not. I'm talking about lying to US Citizens.
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We would need to discern between lying and just not knowing WTH they're saying.

Or "the teleprompter made me say it!"
 
Depends on the circumstance, what if say for example during a situation like WWII a president lied to raise morale among the population?

In a time like that if the president were to say the truth and demoralize the people the consequences could be bad.

At the same time, a dishonest president is nothing good either.
 
As nice as it sounds, I had to vote no for the main reason that it's too hard to prove intent.

Besides, plenty of politicians actually believe the crap they espouse.
 
Zyphlin said:
No, largely because what is or isn't a lie is extremely hard to prove and it would be massively politicized. Absolutely not. M
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I agree with this.

As for proving a lie in court, and then keeping partisan crap out of it, good luck.
 
Of course not.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Should it be a crime for an elected official to lie to the people on open airwaves, in person etc etc? Now I don't mean lying to other governments and what not. I'm talking about lying to US Citizens.
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No, but it should be a crime for people to be stupid enough to fall for it. ;)
 
Kal'Stang said:
Should it be a crime for an elected official to lie to the people on open airwaves, in person etc etc? Now I don't mean lying to other governments and what not. I'm talking about lying to US Citizens.
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I think that would be great, but I don't see how it could possibly be determined or enforced. As it stands there are a thousand and one ways to deceive without actually lying.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Should it be a crime for an elected official to lie to the people on open airwaves, in person etc etc? Now I don't mean lying to other governments and what not. I'm talking about lying to US Citizens.
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Absolutely not. Sometimes it is necessary for an elected official to deceive the people or mask their true views on issues before a matter is settled (FDR's prevarication's and hedging in the lead up to World War II come to mind so does Polk and the coveting of California). We elect representatives not proxies and if you don't like your representative or think he lied to you don't vote for him or her. The mechanism for punishing lying representatives should come from the electorate not the courts.
 
I'm actually a bit surprised at the results here. Some of you don't agree because of the logistics, others just seem to not mind being lied to by our government because they see it as a necessity for the government to perform its job "properly".

I do agree that the logistics of such would be hard to overcome. But imo nothing worth doing is ever easy and it being hard should not be a deterrent to at least try. I do admit that setting something up would be extremely hard, but I'm not exactly the smartest person in the world either. I'm sure that with enough time, resources, and some very smart people something could be set up.

As for the last half of the above first paragraph, I'll simply have to just disagree.
 
Sherman123 said:
Absolutely not. Sometimes it is necessary for an elected official to deceive the people or mask their true views on issues before a matter is settled (FDR's prevarication's and hedging in the lead up to World War II come to mind so does Polk and the coveting of California). We elect representatives not proxies and if you don't like your representative or think he lied to you don't vote for him or her. The mechanism for punishing lying representatives should come from the electorate not the courts.
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There is a difference between prevarication and out right lying. I have no problem with a politician saying something to the effect of "I'm not sure at this time" or "I cannot comment on that" or something similar. Lying outright however should never be tolerated in those that are supposed to make the laws of this country and uphold those laws and the Constitution.
 
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