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Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

  • Yes

    Votes: 49 55.1%
  • No

    Votes: 31 34.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 9 10.1%

  • Total voters
    89

TheDemSocialist

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Many people often claim that labor and trade unions are no longer needed, because "safety regulations, fair wages, days off, 8 hour work day, and child labor" have already been won. They claim because of this labor, and trade unions are no longer needed. My question is: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?
 
Some unions are still relevant today but the vast majority aren't.

And example of unions who aren't needed and are damaging today are public sector unions.
Another example of where unions are holding back progress is in manufacturing. If jobs can be automated, jobs should be automated.

An example of unions that are still needed or should exist if it doesn't is garbage collectors union for every garbage collecting company out there.
Basically those areas where technology doesn't have an answer and where jobs give a low quality of life and low work satisfaction. Basically jobs who are just jobs and not careers. Fast food joints should have unions. I'm sorry, a lot of people will scream "but mah hamburger". Yeah, you shouldn't eat those everyday anyway. But they should have unions because working conditions are awful. Starbucks, mcdonalds, wendys', kfc, all of them.

Truckers for instance are at a turning point. Until now, it may have been nice for them to have, if they didn't have, an union to represent them. But now, those that exist need to go away and no new ones formed because in about 10-20 years I think we'll see the first prototype of complete driverless car that can replace their job.
 
Many people often claim that labor and trade unions are no longer needed, because "safety regulations, fair wages, days off, 8 hour work day, and child labor" have already been won. They claim because of this labor, and trade unions are no longer needed. My question is: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

The continued existence of Unions is low on the list of "ideal outcomes", but high compared to current economic conditions. Aka, I would rather have empowered Unions and all their nonsense than corporations with this level of influence over society.

Ideally, we would just be a high functioning anarchy where everybody does the right, un-greedy thing. Failing that, government would mediate between labor interests and industrialists.

I can't really get behind Unions because the nature of their organization is such that older members receive preferment over younger ones because they've been paying dues longer and, to the Union, this seniority supersedes any other moral consideration because the Union finances its operations through dues. So if Teacher A does something vile and runs into complication and Teacher B does something good and runs into complication, its consistently more imperative for the Union to assist Teacher A than Teacher B.

Money buying out over virtue is one of the most frustrating aspects of the human condition. Corporations are a worse example, but ideally neither of them would have significant power in society.
 
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Many people often claim that labor and trade unions are no longer needed, because "safety regulations, fair wages, days off, 8 hour work day, and child labor" have already been won. They claim because of this labor, and trade unions are no longer needed. My question is: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

If we lived in a distributist state, trade unions could be abolished as inducive of class struggle. But since we live in a capitalist system, they are necessary for the protection of labor rights.
 
For as long as workers deem their rights to be relevant, unions will continue remain a necessity. In a system driven by competition and the accumulation of capital, corporate self-interest and governmental connivance will continue to assure this relevance. Whatever diminutive concessions may have been granted, they can always be waived. And would be, were there no pressure.

Asking if unions are necessary in a Capitalist economy, is like asking if elections are necessary in a democracy. It's pretty much a no-brainer.
 
Many people often claim that labor and trade unions are no longer needed, because "safety regulations, fair wages, days off, 8 hour work day, and child labor" have already been won. They claim because of this labor, and trade unions are no longer needed. My question is: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

Personally I tend to believe that trade unions are probably too traditional to represent the needs of people in the changed economy and require a rejuvenation or remain a rather inefficient remnant of past glory, when the rackets could wield its power in the docks and slaughterhouses or Hoffa return the vote.
 
I have worked two different factory jobs one without unions and one with unions. The union job is better. By about 100 miles. I do less and get paid more and the benefits are better. So yeah if you can go union do it.
 
I have worked two different factory jobs one without unions and one with unions. The union job is better. By about 100 miles. I do less and get paid more and the benefits are better. So yeah if you can go union do it.

I think a big problem in political logic is the all or nothing mentality.

Should every single job in America be unionized? No.
Should unions be completely done away with? No.

Unions I'm some cases do have a history of hurting business and shutting down companies struggling to survive, ultimately costing their own jobs. I think it was eastern airlines that died as a company because of a union. At the same time, and especially today, the corporate culture gives the top management huge salaries, huge bonuses, golden parachutes while keeping rank and file employees compensation as low as possible, slashing benefits and lasting off people while giving those kept with more work or moving jobs to the third world where they can pay workers pennies on the dollar. This is contributing to the political culture where workers who feel their livelihoods are being threatened with vote against the party that see as being in the back pockets of the corporate big-wigs and against their financial well being where "perception is reality" even when its not.

A better solution than unions is to include company stock in workers' compensation.
 
Many people often claim that labor and trade unions are no longer needed, because "safety regulations, fair wages, days off, 8 hour work day, and child labor" have already been won. They claim because of this labor, and trade unions are no longer needed. My question is: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?
Yes, for several reasons.

1. The laws that sustain safety regulations, et al. could be undone. Unions help make sure that they aren't.

2. Employers still look to exploit workers in new ways. Unions help make sure they don't.

3. Big employers like corporations and government institutions have power behind them that individual workers do not. Unions enable individual workers to counter that power.
 
I think they are essential. In order to achieve a freer and stronger economy, we need to have the unions take the lead. Instead of petitioning the government though, they need to petition the individual companies and capture the markets attention. Only then will companies become more efficient and workers will be protected more effectively.
 
Unions are nothing but a leftist tool to let the ignorant and often lazy masses to exert control over the successful. Just another way to make people into a flock of sheeple instead of them standing up and earning for themselves.
 
I think they are essential. In order to achieve a freer and stronger economy, we need to have the unions take the lead. Instead of petitioning the government though, they need to petition the individual companies and capture the markets attention. Only then will companies become more efficient and workers will be protected more effectively.

I think the greatest complaint in private industry is the impact they have had on putting companies out of business, or at least in causing them to take measures to try and maintain the profitability demanded by investors.

In the public arena, they are a virus the public needs to address in some meaningful manner.
 
Of course they are. Right now we are experiencing a downturn in union activity and that will change over time. The only power the average working person has in in the unity of the union. Otherwise, its always one person against a more powerful machine - and these days its a massive corporate machine with very deep pockets.
 
Unions are nothing but a leftist tool to let the ignorant and often lazy masses to exert control over the successful. Just another way to make people into a flock of sheeple instead of them standing up and earning for themselves.

You say that, but as a new guy in my union I make TWICE what non-union company supervisors we work with make. Three times what a new guy there makes.

So I dismiss your claim as to individual negotiating power.
 
You say that, but as a new guy in my union I make TWICE what non-union company supervisors we work with make. Three times what a new guy there makes.

So I dismiss your claim as to individual negotiating power.

What happens when such a separation in compensation gets addressed by methods or technology that eliminates the position at half the cost?
 
What happens when such a separation in compensation gets addressed by methods or technology that eliminates the position at half the cost?

Business will adopt those methods/technologies as soon as they become available whether there are unions or not. As they have been doing.

I'm a stage hand. Its gonna be a while before they can build a robot to replace me.
 
You say that, but as a new guy in my union I make TWICE what non-union company supervisors we work with make. Three times what a new guy there makes.

So I dismiss your claim as to individual negotiating power.

Then you probably get paid 5 times the real market value of your job and the amount/quality of the labor you actually do.

Sure, it's good for you, right up until the time someone makes a robot to replace you or the company decides it can no longer afford you and outsources that job.
 
I think a big problem in political logic is the all or nothing mentality.

Should every single job in America be unionized? No.
Should unions be completely done away with? No.

Unions I'm some cases do have a history of hurting business and shutting down companies struggling to survive, ultimately costing their own jobs. I think it was eastern airlines that died as a company because of a union. At the same time, and especially today, the corporate culture gives the top management huge salaries, huge bonuses, golden parachutes while keeping rank and file employees compensation as low as possible, slashing benefits and lasting off people while giving those kept with more work or moving jobs to the third world where they can pay workers pennies on the dollar. This is contributing to the political culture where workers who feel their livelihoods are being threatened with vote against the party that see as being in the back pockets of the corporate big-wigs and against their financial well being where "perception is reality" even when its not.

A better solution than unions is to include company stock in workers' compensation.

Greetings, Sméagol. :2wave:

And yet we read that General Motors, which was bailed out by our taxpayer money, BTW, built their latest plant in Mexico! So much for loyalty to the USA taxpayer! :thumbdown:

I wholeheartedly agree with your suggestion that company stock be included in a worker's compensation package...great incentive, on a personal level, to assure that a worker does their best to help the company, which is paying their salary, succeed! Unfortunately, lots of failing companies only do this as a last resort, but it works! :thumbs:
 
Unions are anything but necessary-in fact improving standards even as unions die a slow death show this to be the case.

Unions are anti-competition. They drive up costs to the consumer and sub-par employees are harder to replace. The implications of this are far reaching.

Unions are anti-first amendment because they violate freedom of association (under the 1st). These unions are generally NOT voluntary, and FORCE individuals to pay for political contributions, etc.

I dance on the grave of unions.
 
Then you probably get paid 5 times the real market value of your job and the amount/quality of the labor you actually do.

Sure, it's good for you, right up until the time someone makes a robot to replace you or the company decides it can no longer afford you and outsources that job.

Stagehand. Gonna be a while before they can build a robot to do what I do.

And there's plenty of money flying around in my industry. The convention side is a writeoff for most of those companies. Then there's concerts and theater. We work for much less for the theaters so they can afford it.

My union is structurally different from say an autoworker union. Our work isn't 9-5 40 hours a week. Work is doled out to senior members first, but is also based on skillset.

I actually prefer the European model where labor is on the board. Minimizes silly nonsense from management and allows the kind of flexibility between investors and labor our adversarial system does not.
 
Greetings, Sméagol. :2wave:

And yet we read that General Motors, which was bailed out by our taxpayer money, BTW, built their latest plant in Mexico! So much for loyalty to the USA taxpayer! :thumbdown:

I wholeheartedly agree with your suggestion that company stock be included in a worker's compensation package...great incentive, on a personal level, to assure that a worker does their best to help the company, which is paying their salary, succeed! Unfortunately, lots of failing companies only do this as a last resort, but it works! :thumbs:

With a lot of companies, the employer/employee relationship is dysfunctional. Employers often see employees as liabilities, a drain on profits, a necessary evil. Employees see their employers as exploitive, unfair, etc. This is not good for the company nor the economy as a whole. Allowing employers to earn stock in their companies gets everybody on the same page, fosters team unity, fosters team loyalty and makes everyone the hardest worker they can ge because they have a vested interest in the companies success beyond getting paid on payday.
 
With a lot of companies, the employer/employee relationship is dysfunctional. Employers often see employees as liabilities, a drain on profits, a necessary evil. Employees see their employers as exploitive, unfair, etc. This is not good for the company nor the economy as a whole. Allowing employers to earn stock in their companies gets everybody on the same page, fosters team unity, fosters team loyalty and makes everyone the hardest worker they can ge because they have a vested interest in the companies success beyond getting paid on payday.

In my experience its union shops that have the adversarial relationship with their employees.
 
At one time Unions were useful but they have become corrective and just a tool of the democratic party and have outlived their usefulness.
 
At one time Unions were useful but they have become corrective and just a tool of the democratic party and have outlived their usefulness.
I work for a labor union and they have endorsed several GOP congressmen/congresswoman both at state and national level.
 
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