View Poll Results: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

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  • Yes

    53 50.96%
  • No

    42 40.38%
  • Other

    9 8.65%
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Thread: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    You're the consummate union member - devoted only to yourself and willing to make ANYONE pay so that you can get yours. There was a time when unions were a good thing, but people like you took over and allowed their greed and selfishness to destroy that unions were doing. I've never worked in a union shop, my job security came not from my union, but from the quality of work I did. I determined my future and my value to my employer, not a group of lawyers/lobbyists, but my effort, my work ethic, my intellect.
    And Corporations are NOT selfish, greedy, and only look out for their own best interest?? , yea it's a 2 way street, and save all of your self righteous BS, how many others have used their intellect, and hard work and put in 5-10-15-20 years, only to be put on the street because of some at will employment BS, where they can fire you anytime they want, even if they don't like you, or the color of your skin..
    ,

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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Unions have evolved to protecting themselves as a form of big business first, and workers second, but yeah they are pretty much the only ones looking out for workers at all.
    Given all the moves to destroy them, it's hardly surprising that unions have to devote a lot of energy to mere survival. They can't very well represent anyone if they're getting crippled themselves, can they?
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    No need to over think it. CEO's and shareholders are concerned with the health and profitability of the company. Union members are not concerned with the health and profitability of the company.
    *Why* are CEOs and shareholders concerned with the financial health of the company? It's not for altruistic reasons. No, they want the personal financial benefit to them as individuals. If they didn't have a time and/or financial investment in their company they wouldn't give a rat's arse if the company lived or died.

    This is evidenced by companies giving CEOs generous pay and bonus and perks and always looking out for the shareholder over the customer or some other less profitable issue.
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    In the broad sense, I suggest it is. Obviously there are exceptions. In your case, it appears to make sense to keep the business viable.
    And on that note, the local opera just weathered a bit of a "scandal".

    Times are hard for opera, it doesn't captivate as many people now, so attendance is down. San Diego has a top rate opera, but was going to be in the red next year. The board, which pulls down six figures, voted to end it. Because they would get their salaries for two years if the funds were available, and if they spent the money on the shortfall it wouldn't be there for them.

    The company learned of this in the newspaper, after the fact.

    A major "save the opera" campaign was started by the union and the company itself and enough was raised to keep the company going, on the condition the directors be replaced.

    So in this case, personal gain of a couple of directors was considered more important than the jobs of the entire company and opera afficionados as well.
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    *Why* are CEOs and shareholders concerned with the financial health of the company? It's not for altruistic reasons. No, they want the personal financial benefit to them as individuals. If they didn't have a time and/or financial investment in their company they wouldn't give a rat's arse if the company lived or died.

    This is evidenced by companies giving CEOs generous pay and bonus and perks and always looking out for the shareholder over the customer or some other less profitable issue.
    Of course the CEO's and shareholders are all about financial health of the company. The CEO has a fiduciary duty to perform his duties for the benefit of the shareholders. In general there is nothing altruistic about it. Do you think the public employee pension plans who invest in these companies give a rats ass how the employees are treated? They demand an ROI, period, or they will invest elsewhere. That goes for all shareholders.

    The most profitable issue is the customer. Without them, there is no revenue, so I'm not sure where you're coming from their. The only ones not really concerned with profits are the employees. They want as much as they can get and they leave it up to management to figure out how to remain healthy and open.

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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    And on that note, the local opera just weathered a bit of a "scandal".

    Times are hard for opera, it doesn't captivate as many people now, so attendance is down. San Diego has a top rate opera, but was going to be in the red next year. The board, which pulls down six figures, voted to end it. Because they would get their salaries for two years if the funds were available, and if they spent the money on the shortfall it wouldn't be there for them.

    The company learned of this in the newspaper, after the fact.

    A major "save the opera" campaign was started by the union and the company itself and enough was raised to keep the company going, on the condition the directors be replaced.

    So in this case, personal gain of a couple of directors was considered more important than the jobs of the entire company and opera afficionados as well.
    It takes all kinds I guess. The exception certainly does not prove the rule. However, if opera is not a commercially viable endeavor in San Diego, I'm not sure what should be expected. Unless some benefactor can step in and underwrite the loss, it's a sign of the times. Vaudeville suffered the same fate.

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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    It takes all kinds I guess. The exception certainly does not prove the rule. However, if opera is not a commercially viable endeavor in San Diego, I'm not sure what should be expected. Unless some benefactor can step in and underwrite the loss, it's a sign of the times. Vaudeville suffered the same fate.
    The point was the directors choosing to take their six figure salaries intact for two years instead of allowing that money to keep the company going for a couple more years.

    Management taking short term profits over workers and customers.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    Some unions are still relevant today but the vast majority aren't.

    And example of unions who aren't needed and are damaging today are public sector unions.
    Another example of where unions are holding back progress is in manufacturing. If jobs can be automated, jobs should be automated.

    An example of unions that are still needed or should exist if it doesn't is garbage collectors union for every garbage collecting company out there.
    Basically those areas where technology doesn't have an answer and where jobs give a low quality of life and low work satisfaction. Basically jobs who are just jobs and not careers. Fast food joints should have unions. I'm sorry, a lot of people will scream "but mah hamburger". Yeah, you shouldn't eat those everyday anyway. But they should have unions because working conditions are awful. Starbucks, mcdonalds, wendys', kfc, all of them.

    Truckers for instance are at a turning point. Until now, it may have been nice for them to have, if they didn't have, an union to represent them. But now, those that exist need to go away and no new ones formed because in about 10-20 years I think we'll see the first prototype of complete driverless car that can replace their job.
    And if YOUR job was to be replaced by a robot?
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Of course the CEO's and shareholders are all about financial health of the company. The CEO has a fiduciary duty to perform his duties for the benefit of the shareholders. In general there is nothing altruistic about it. Do you think the public employee pension plans who invest in these companies give a rats ass how the employees are treated? They demand an ROI, period, or they will invest elsewhere. That goes for all shareholders.

    The most profitable issue is the customer. Without them, there is no revenue, so I'm not sure where you're coming from their. The only ones not really concerned with profits are the employees. They want as much as they can get and they leave it up to management to figure out how to remain healthy and open.
    One would think that would be obvious, but too many companies don't do that. What you're talking about is long-term stability. Text book theory, not today's fast-paced reality. Too many companies are only concerned with the short-term... this quarter, and *maybe* next quarter. Maybe. Anything beyond that is too for out to worry about.

    A perfect example would be cable and satellite and cell phone companies that put great emphasis on attracting new customers and virtually zero emphasis on keeping existing customers.
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 274ina View Post
    And if YOUR job was to be replaced by a robot?
    More power to them.
    But I'd doubt a robot can do my job since it requires persistent learning and growing.

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