View Poll Results: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

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  • Yes

    53 50.96%
  • No

    42 40.38%
  • Other

    9 8.65%
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Thread: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

  1. #41
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    I think the greatest complaint in private industry is the impact they have had on putting companies out of business, or at least in causing them to take measures to try and maintain the profitability demanded by investors.

    In the public arena, they are a virus the public needs to address in some meaningful manner.
    The people have a responsibility to force change in the market when things are unjust, not the government. The market has more power than the government has when it comes to this, so it is up to them to shape a safe and prosperous workplace. If companies are unwilling to conform to the wishes of the market, it is there fault when they go out of business. I do not support compulsory membership though, because that is when the rights of the individual is infringed upon.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals."
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    The people have a responsibility to force change in the market when things are unjust, not the government. The market has more power than the government has when it comes to this, so it is up to them to shape a safe and prosperous workplace. If companies are unwilling to conform to the wishes of the market, it is there fault when they go out of business. I do not support compulsory membership though, because that is when the rights of the individual is infringed upon.
    As noted by the former President of UAW, private sector unions have not taken the economic health of the employer into account. GM and Chrysler are great examples of this disconnect. The important point is that the labor unions in the private sector can either be partners in a companies efforts, or they can make their membership unemployed.

    This is not the case in the public sector.

  3. #43
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    As noted by the former President of UAW, private sector unions have not taken the economic health of the employer into account. GM and Chrysler are great examples of this disconnect. The important point is that the labor unions in the private sector can either be partners in a companies efforts, or they can make their membership unemployed.

    This is not the case in the public sector.
    Which is why public sector unions are even worse-no need to stay solvent or be anything close to realistic.

  4. #44
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    If we lived in a distributist state, trade unions could be abolished as inducive of class struggle. But since we live in a capitalist system, they are necessary for the protection of labor rights.

    A distributist state ?

    You mean a Centrally planned demand economy where each is given according to his needs ?

    Where oligarchs are the arbiter of equity and fairness ?

    That's been tried with expected results over and over and over.

    The only question I have is why on earth would anyone still support such a system ?

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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    A distributist state ?

    You mean a Centrally planned demand economy where each is given according to his needs ?

    Where oligarchs are the arbiter of equity and fairness ?

    That's been tried with expected results over and over and over.

    The only question I have is why on earth would anyone still support such a system ?
    Its always amusing watching marxists explain how the revolution-intended to eliminate poverty-never seemed to get there.

    They are slow learners.

  6. #46
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Collective bargaining is still needed I believe. Unions however, need a reformation.

  7. #47
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    A distributist state ?

    You mean a Centrally planned demand economy where each is given according to his needs ?

    Where oligarchs are the arbiter of equity and fairness ?

    That's been tried with expected results over and over and over.

    The only question I have is why on earth would anyone still support such a system ?
    No. I don't know if that's what he means but that's not what distributism is in the slightest.

    No

    Really? Actually when it was implemented there was a more equitable economy.

  8. #48
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Many people often claim that labor and trade unions are no longer needed, because "safety regulations, fair wages, days off, 8 hour work day, and child labor" have already been won. They claim because of this labor, and trade unions are no longer needed. My question is: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?
    Unions are, and always will be, necessary to keep us from regressing. Any notion that we wouldn't allow that to happen is naive.

    Having said that, unions need to get over themselves and act like they actually are for their members, and not just another morphed abomination of big business itself.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  9. #49
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    I see a bunch of people talking about the usefulness of unions but none of them are actually in one. Let me give you some quick facts about my two jobs:

    Green Tokai
    Maysville, KY
    Pay: $14.60 an hour (as a class 1, most jobs pay $12, highest paying hourly job is $18 and that is an engineer tech)
    Days it takes to get FMLA: Federal guidelines
    Dayes it takes to get vacation time and sick time: A year holidays paid though
    Time it takes to get insurance: 3 months after hire, insurance is $25 a week for family dental and vision are extra
    Time it takes to get 401k: Depends on the time of the year, will match up to 50 cents of 6%
    Union: no

    Aristech Acrylics
    Florence, KY
    Pay: $17 an hour for "Tier 2" $19 for "Tier 1" all employees will be merged into Tier 1 by October. $1 more on the hour for leads (which I am)
    Time it takes to get insurance: Instant, insurance has a free option, pay extra for vision and dental
    Days it takes to get FMLA: Company chooses not to follow federal guideline, get it from day 1
    Days it takes to get vacation and sick time: Day 1, one week vacation, one week sick leave. Even has paid vacation on bull**** holidays like Veterans Day and MLK Day
    Time it takes to get 401k: Instant, company automatically contributes the value of 3% of your earnings, not taking it out of your earnings, but the percentage out of their pockets. Matches $1 up to 6%.
    Union: Yes

    So the choice is clear.
    ..and when the competition between the two companies comes down to one of them surviving and one of them closing it's doors, it will be the non-union shop that stays open and the union shop that closes.

    My issue with unions is that too often they fail to recognize that what is best for the company is normally best for the employee. The industry I work has seen substantial contraction over the last decade or so and the survivors (like us) have generally been the non-union shops.
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

  10. #50
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    If we lived in a distributist state, trade unions could be abolished as inducive of class struggle. But since we live in a capitalist system, they are necessary for the protection of labor rights.
    Very well said. Yes, I agree that in our system needs to have a front line of defense against abuses and that has always been labor's strong suit. Another thing that is important, is that American labor provides a stadard for thde are prevailg wage and benefits packages that non union labor must compete with. As the force of labor has dropeed in this coutnry however, we have also seen the accompanying stagnation of real wages adn teh pension system is becoming a thing of the past with health benefits a close second.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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